Posted on 06/01/2017 6:18:38 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
A Russian innovation in armoured warfare has pushed Norway to replace many of its current anti-tank systems.
Active protection systems (APS) are being built into Russia's new Armata T-14 tank, posing a problem for a whole generation of anti-armour weapons, not least the US-supplied Javelin guided missile, used by the Norwegian Army.
The warning comes from Brig Ben Barry of the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) in London. He says this is a problem that most Nato countries have barely begun to grapple with.
APS threatens to make existing anti-tank weapons far less effective, and there is little real discussion of this among many Western militaries, he says.
Some countries are conducting research and trials to equip their own tanks with APS. "But they seem to miss the uncomfortable implications for their own anti-armour capabilities," he says.
Norway is one of the first Nato countries to grasp this nettle. Its latest defence procurement plan envisages spending 200-350m kroner (£18.5-32.5m; $24-42m) on replacing its Javelin missiles, "to maintain the capacity to fight against heavy armoured vehicles".
"There is a need for [an] anti-tank missile," it says, "that can penetrate APS systems".
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
The armor's thinnest underneath. A submunition that lies on the ground, then detonates like a mine due to magnetic influence/photocell/heat/ antivibration/acoustical input [multiple different triggers, some single-method, some all of the above] with an underbelly effect akin to a Rockeye submunition, some shaped charge, some HESH would slow things down. Include a fair-sized HE track breaker round as an alternate choice for the driver to worry about, especially at night, and you've made things harder for the bad guy tankisti.
Squantos, you start working on the underbelly demo charges and tilt-switch triggers. About a 15-pound charge ought to do it, same as a TM-46 or TM-57 antitank mine.
Good doogie, go see Ivan, he's got your chow for you.
True, but isn't there a difference between the clearance time through the tube for a missile and a shell? Would what may be stabilized enough for the passage of a shell still be sufficient for a missile throughout its boost/launch period?
I apologize, I got the C value wrong. But the idea and the function will work.
It will hit a tank, leave a very small hole because the pentrator will be small, and will exit the other side pulling most everything in the tank out with it.
An attempt was made in Iraq and the speed was slightly too small. The penetrator entered onone side, hit the armor on exit and stopped. The tank was a kill, the people inside got a little shook up, a lot shook up, but survived. The entrance hole and the exit hole were smaller than a pencil.
The technology is there, the means to put it into action is not. And we are not necessarily the ones in the lead.
Do you have a link for the event in Iraq.
No, I have the photos.
Ok...any more details? Did you see what fired it...how is it known that this was a man portable rail weapon as opposed to a standard KE round? Did it enter the side of the turret or penetrate the DU block on the front? You say it was a ‘kill’...did it hit any systems, or did the blast of KE fry the electronics.
Quick Kill/Active Kill is not operationally deployed on any tank we have; the Army is still dithering about it. They can’t decide if they want that or they want to wait for MAPS: http://breakingdefense.com/2016/04/army-pushes-missile-defense-for-tanks-maps/
There is difference in travel time, but the stabilizer works fine for it. In fact, gun-launched missiles work fine for unstabilized use too - the US used to field the MGM-51 Shillelagh missile in the M551 Sheridan and the M60A2 “Starship”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-51_Shillelagh
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/MGM-51.jpg
The Israelis have a modern missile called the LAHAT they fire out of their Merkava main guns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAHAT
FYI, one of the big problems with the older autoloaders was that they had to be designed around the crew in the turret. Removing the crew makes the job easier.
Also, here’s how many autoloaders work, including the Japanese and Korean ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IjgndIFhgU
T-90 Autoloader footage starts at 1:40:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jmIVC7yLU0
It should be mentioned that this is technically banned by a number of anti-mine treaties (of which we’re not signatories, but still should be noted).
That’s not a bad idea either, but you’re looking at either artillery launched carriers or needing air superiority for the ground attack aircraft to deploy such munitions. It would also be problematic (or pointless) to deploy in urban circumstances. However, tanks are increasingly gaining underbelly armoring or deflection due to the IED/mine threat so how long that sort of thing will remain useful is up in the air.
One interesting idea I’ve seen is to basically stick an EFP device on top of a remote controlled car and drive it under the tank to detonate. It’d be somewhat limited in use, but it would help solve the problem unsupported infantry would have against tanks with APS.
LOL!
That’s true, one issue are these systems are easily defeatable.
I wouldn’t bother with them.
They are working on a laser system that I think is going to be the best solution.
No, I remember both the Sheridan and the M60A2 from my time in the Army, but both of those had the short stubby barrels. So I could understand how that would allow easy passage of a Shillelagh. It just seems strange coming out of a long-barrel tank cannon ...
Wine bottle shape charges with a few pounds of C and a piece of pipe will punch a proper hole in the soft spots, or if you really care a nice platter charge made with an old manhole cover ..... and there are always soft spots ...... actually rendered safe one of the dog mines in northern italy long ago. It was a skeleton of course in a pond but enough remained to determine the wood, straps etcetera were a dog mine.... Really disliked the old “butterfly” bomblets .... rusted pieces of shit but were still deadly..... a BIP RSP if ya were smart ..... Monroe or Misznay Schardin solutions are us ...... knock knock .... who’s there ...... Spall !
I love those “come to jesus” moments when ordnance ordnates at the correct coordinates ...... sorry bout the autodidact grammar ....
Yes, and its time to start up a new A-10 assembly line to counter the T-14.
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