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To: dp0622

Up until the summer of 2013...the Ukraine and the EU were moving toward some type of treaty/arrangement/etc. The Ukraine was set to have the deal of a lifetime, with access to the European market (open door, no issues). Vast situation with manufacturing options (cheaper labor), one of the largest IT university systems in the world at the time, and potential tourism market for the EU.

Rather than do this in very small steps and start with something simple like agricultural products being easy access....the EU came in with gang-busters and wanted a full-up treaty. All Russia could see is the Ukraine being a part of NATO within a couple of years. The EU crowd screwed this up to the ninth-degree....never grasping what kind of mess would be created by this massive step.

When the Ukraine leadership (the President) realized just how frustrated the Russians were....he tried to back out, and the Parliament just weren’t going to accept that.

The US didn’t really help matters, and the number of ethnic Russians in the Ukraine are part of the issue as well. You can basically count up to thirty-odd ethnic groups in the Ukraine....so it’s not a place where you want chaos.

The EU treatment of Russia? They went with Obama’s plan of isolating Russia and eliminating trade. This has screwed up the trade balance between the EU and Russia, but China helped to make up for the loss of trade. So in the end, there are a lot of people looking at the EU for their stupid behavior, and the US for some bad decisions.


5 posted on 11/20/2016 11:51:45 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: pepsionice

Great post. Thanks.

Then I can definitively say I dont want to go to war with Russia over what looks on the map like an Incredibly tiny part of Ukraine.

I know it’s still an invasion, but you describe well how the EU ####ed things up and we would not have been thrilled with Mexico becoming part of the USSR.


6 posted on 11/21/2016 12:00:30 AM PST by dp0622 (IThe only thing an upper crust conservative hates more than a liberal is a middle class conservative)
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To: pepsionice

Interesting. I don’t think I’ve seen the issue from that perspective before. Makes a lot of actions come into better focus. Where can we read more?


17 posted on 11/21/2016 3:48:01 AM PST by AFreeBird (BEST. ELECTION. EVER!)
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To: pepsionice
"the number of ethnic Russians in the Ukraine are part of the issue as well."

Don't forget this is part and parcel of the problem - in the last century, Russians weren't just encouraged to move there, they were told to move there (preview of what was to come here with Mexico). Russia's continuous Cossack vs. Polonisation cannot be rewarded, and Russia is going to have to undo some of that damage in a future Donbass-Crimea Treaty.

22 posted on 11/21/2016 5:25:17 AM PST by StAnDeliver (PS - "May you live in interesting times." The interesting times have just arrived.)
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To: pepsionice

The root of the problem is the socialist politicians in Germany and France.

They have caused nearly ALL the problems in Europe for the last 1000 years.

Now Germany and France are being taken over by the mooslims thanks to the socialist politicians.

Europe as we’ve known it will be dead within twenty years.


31 posted on 11/21/2016 7:18:34 AM PST by Flavious_Maximus
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