Marichal-Spahn the pitching duel of a lifetime

The Mercury News ^ | August 12, 2016 | Daniel Brown

[Kozy]

An email from a sport made me flash back to my youth, 50 years ago, said to my wife where will Warren Spahn rank. Then the famous game of Spahn versus Marichal, the old warrior going against the Kid. Surprise, surprise with their new baseball metrics neither Spahn not Marichal made the top 25. The email and slide show made my junk file. Interesting article that points out how neither guy would give an inch for 16 innings. "Alvin Dark tried to take Marichal out for the first time in the ninth. The conversation did not go well. Marichal refused to go, pointing to the Braves dugout at the 42-year-old counterpart and telling his manager, “I am not going to come out of that game as long as that old man is still pitching.” Willie Mays wins it for Marichal in the bottom of the 16th with a homer. The article provides me with more insight to the men of baseball 50 years ago by this, "Marichal and Spahn met again less than 24 hours later. Dark approached the Braves the next day to ask if the experienced Spahn would talk to Marichal about how to take care of his body after such a taxing game. So the two future Hall of Famers headed off to a secluded stretch of right field for a summit on exercise and a healthy lifestyle. Even by the rugged standards of a previous generation, these were iron men. In that 1963 season, Marichal led the N.L. in innings (3211/3) while Spahn led the league in complete games (22)." Now we have the World Series, designated hitters, short relief, middle relief, closers etc. A lot of the beauty that made the game great is lost but the greatest of that night lives on.

[Kozy]

Relive the greatest pitching duel in baseball before there were relievers.

[spankalib]

Shamelessly admitting I copied Marichal’s leg-kick when I was pitching in LL> :

[Maine Mariner]

Warren Spahn was my boyhood hero. He was left-handed as I am. I cried when I learned that he passed away.

In 1957, my parents took me to a ball game in Milwaukee.
Mr. Spahn was pitching. The Braves won the game!

[Nifster]

Indeed it was. Those were the days of great pitching duels. It is part of what made the game great

[dfwgator]

As long as you didn't copy Marichal's use of a bat.

[be-baw]

It says here that was the 7th best pitching duel of all time.

https://sportslifer.wordpress.com/2013/07/21/the-10-greatest-pitching-duels-in-mlb-history/

[oh8eleven]

Marichal (#27) was pretty good with a bat too ...

[dfwgator]

For me it’s Lolich vs Gibson

[crz]

Warren Spahn was a veteran who was involved in the Bridge at Remagen (sic) in ww2

[Stosh]

And Warren Spahn was at the Ludendorff bridge at Remagen when the Allies made the first crossing of the Rhine in WWII (almost got killed, if I remember correctly).

Far cry from the clowns who can’t even honor the national anthem.

[crz]

Along with many other major leaguers, Spahn chose to enlist in the United States Army, after finishing the 1942 season in the minors. He served with distinction, and was awarded a Purple Heart.[3] He saw action in the Battle of the Bulge and at the Ludendorff Bridge as a combat engineer, and was awarded a battlefield commission.[3]

[Alberta's Child]

I saw a fascinating segment on TV a while back that provided a detailed analysis of hard-throwing pitchers over the years. One of the conclusions I walked away with was this: Not only was the growth of relief pitching inevitable, but it's likely to expand even further -- to the point where a "starting pitcher" will become a distant memory, and games instead will routinely be pitched by a series of pitcher who throw 1-3 innings apiece.

What has changed the game, without question, is the velocity of modern pitches, and the limits on a human arm that are being pushed. The TV segment conducted a pretty comprehensive assessment of pitchers from prior generations before there were radar guns, and they determined that most old-timers really didn't throw hard at all (by modern standards). Walter Johnson, in fact, was known as a flamethrower back in his day ... and the experts in this program agreed that his fastball probably topped out at about 82-83 miles per hour. That would be considered a junkball pitcher today!

[spankalib]

LOL! No I didn’t. LOL!

[Sans-Culotte]

Those were the days.

[Stosh]

Thanks for the link - surprised they didn’t list Harvey Haddix / Lew Burdette from 50-so years ago: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2009/05/24/In-1959-Harvey-Haddix-pitched-perhaps-the-best-game-ever-and-lost/stories/200905240102

[Stosh]

Whhooops - it was #6 - my oversight

[dfwgator]

Also, the shoulder is the last part of the body to fully develop, at age 25.

Now young pitchers are abused to the point where they are severely damaged, whereas if they had waited until the age of 25, they could throw as hard as they want and have relatively few problems.

[Stosh]

“. . . games instead will routinely be pitched by a series of pitcher who throw 1-3 innings apiece.”

Almost like the game returning to its origins - if you follow cricket (yeah, that’s kind of a joke), you’ll see that the “bowlers” are rotated through out the game - it’s like a continual string of relievers from beginning to end.

[Alberta's Child]

Interesting. But I think that has lost some relevance over time. It seems to me that shoulder injuries among pitchers aren't as common as they used to be. Instead, we're seeing more and more pitchers dealing with elbow problems -- even at a very young age.

[nicksaunt]

I saw my first major league game in 1967 at Candlestick Park. Juan Marichal pitched against Ferguson Jenkins. I could not believe Marichal’s kick. It seems like a million years ago, those truly were the days.