Posted on 10/24/2016 8:26:25 AM PDT by pinochet
For a 6 month period in 1990, I was a member of a New York chess club, in which I was the only person who was religious. Most members were extreme atheists. There is a difference between regular atheists and extreme atheists.
Extreme atheists not only reject the existence of God, but deny the existence of the human soul. Extreme atheists believe that human beings are collections of atoms, and are not different from tables and chairs. They believe that love does not exist, as it cannot be seen in a microscope, and is a mental hallucination. They also believe that the human conscience does not exist, and what people call a conscience is a mental delusion, because we cannot see conscience with a microscope. The only reality from their perspective is material reality, and there is no other reality.
Is there a difference? Funniest question ever...
Describe the purpose and meaning.... if you feel there is no God... outside of your years on this earth... what meaning is there when you die and turn to dust...
In addition, how do you define moral and good thought and action.. why would your thoughts of that meaning be superior to another’s who disagreed... and what right would you having in telling them yours are superior to theirs...
I don’t mean for this to offend... I would just like to understand someone who feels that we are just a random conclusion to chaos and mutation....
Most times I see an atheist faith in science is their god... to believe there is no creation... is to discount the laws of the natural realm...
Simply put... matter cannot be created or destroyed.... so where did the original matter come from that makes up the universe.... It just, and always, was (I think there is a being that describes themselves as such....)?
In addition, the physical realm is governed by unchanging rules.... and laws... how does something that came into existence (from nothing?) have unchanging rules and laws without a designed intent..? What we should see is chaos... not order.....
...and if there are unchanging natural laws.. why would the sentient realm be any different....?
God is unchanging... the same yesterday, as today... .as He will be tomorrow.... He is the beginning and the end... the all encompassing I AM....
Pretty amazing how a book which pertains to outlining who we are and why we are here lines up with the unchanging laws of the universe...
I pray one day you open you heart to your creator,... He is waiting.... just ask Him to show Himself to you..
Yes, card carrying members. But my point was simply that running around telling them that they are incapable of love or conscience will make them think you are aren’t very bright.
It won’t win them to Christ.
I believe without god the void is filled with something else by nature. I have no right to tell anyone what that is. In my estimation increasingly godless societies (especially in the west)tend to deteriorate. That being said the founders tell us there is no established religion but inalienable rights granted by the grace of god (not man(kind). I understand the atheist scorn at this but I have no doubt the atheist can understand the meaning and intent of key tenets of America’s founding: life,liberty and pursuit of happiness; E pluribus unum. I generally have no problem with atheist until they start their activist nonsense like taking crosses off of military cemeteries etc. The liberal shuns god but their religion is liberalism and their gods are the socialist oligarchy. Godless societies tend to murder millions of their own people but that is not taught in school anymore. Obama was called the “messiah” and equated to saint status on more than one occasion. Religion is far from perfect and this new Christian left shows that we can be just as depraved. Many Christians support Planned murderhood and many Catholics turn a blind eye to abortion.
Marshall’s isn’t the best place to observe mankind. LOL
There are very few problems in this country that couldn’t be solved by turning back to God.
Describe the purpose and meaning.... if you feel there is no God... outside of your years on this earth... what meaning is there when you die and turn to dust...
Why do you think you need or require meaning? Why is the sky blue? who cares?
When I die it will be exactly as it was before I was born. I don’t remember being born so I can’t possibly remember the moment I cease to exist.
In addition, how do you define moral and good thought and action.. why would your thoughts of that meaning be superior to another’s who disagreed... and what right would you having in telling them yours are superior to theirs...
No such thing as morality,all of it is cost vs. benefit. Profit vs.loss, both variable perceptions and intensities.
I don’t mean for this to offend... I would just like to understand someone who feels that we are just a random conclusion to chaos and mutation....
Be honest, you WANT it to be offensive so you can justify your “faith”.
Actually we have no possible way to prove our own existence since it is impossible to be objective to it, ALL we can do is tell each other what we have seen or imagined.
Most times I see an atheist faith in science is their god... to believe there is no creation... is to discount the laws of the natural realm...
You confuse what faith and proof is. One cannot have faith if you have one shred of proof. Proof as in being what can be proven by different people and the results being consistent, such as one can agree that table salt tastes salty, therefore if you taste salt you can prove to yourself that it is.
Simply put... matter cannot be created or destroyed.... so where did the original matter come from that makes up the universe.... It just, and always, was (I think there is a being that describes themselves as such....)?
No, that “being” was described by men , who had no proof.
That “matter cannot be created or destroyed “ was described for the first law of thermodynamics, so you are attempting to use scientific observational proof to prove faith! utter insanity!
In addition, the physical realm is governed by unchanging rules.... and laws... how does something that came into existence (from nothing?) have unchanging rules and laws without a designed intent..? What we should see is chaos... not order.....
we do see chaos, and order. order always breaks down towards chaos, with the exception of the thought experiment known as maxwell’s demon. more science.
...and if there are unchanging natural laws.. why would the sentient realm be any different....?
who thinks that it is?
God is unchanging... the same yesterday, as today... .as He will be tomorrow.... He is the beginning and the end... the all encompassing I AM....
SO IS ODIN. there is more proof to him, he says he destroyed the ice giants. have you seen one around?
Pretty amazing how a book which pertains to outlining who we are and why we are here lines up with the unchanging laws of the universe...
you haven’t read the bible.
I pray one day you open you heart to your creator,... He is waiting.... just ask Him to show Himself to you..
I was told my mom and dad created me,I will have to either believe it or not. I’m going with the proof as I have seen others being born as I don’t need faith. praying is as useless as tits on a nun or balls on a priest.
hope this clarifies it for you.
Put simply, I don’t put much (if any) credence into the “visions”, “revelations”, etc. of bronze age men. We’ve come a long way since.
No I don’t mean to offend... if you take offense... that is something you need to reflect upon...
As for you thoughts... it is simple... you believe there is no such thing as morality, all of it is cost vs. benefit. profit vs. loss, both variable perceptions and intensities.
So is it depending on what is beneficial... for you or society.. who makes the decision... If others disagree and they have more power... is that beneficial or not?
As such.. suing your reasoning.... anything may be found to be acceptable... so Hitler, if he had won WWII... would have been redeemed... because he triumphed over others thinking... and benefited his nation... so if enough find it acceptable... than such would be of most benefit?
IMHO.. there is morality in your argument.. but painfully, using your definition... it is up to those with greatest power and influence to define it... in addition to what is good.. and what is bad...
You assume to know there is no God.. but have stated you need proof... the first law of physics dictates the existence we live in is not possible... yet we are here... so is the first law invalid...?
Insanity is knowing a law exists that is fundamental to our very existence... and not understanding that something outside of that law defined it and satisfied it... Ask yourself... who defined the laws of the universe... they are observed... and measurable... thus defined... or do you hold... they just are what they are... there is no evolution of the physical law... it has always been this way... so again... how were they defined?
You may wish to believe science has yet to figure that out yet, but will... that is called faith in man and his intelligence....
In the end, science and man are the gods of atheists... you may not see it as such.. but you do have faith that there are answers to things that are unknown to us today... and man, using reason and science, will figure them out....
I believe that we live in a world of design and reason... for a purpose (to know and love God) based upon, and as dictated by, the unchanging laws we find in nature (chaos is not found in nature... it is predictable and governed by law)... I believe God defined those laws as well as all the matter in creation....
And yes... the Bible was transcribed by men, as moved by God, to let us know why we are here and what our purpose is... to let us know he was the Creator of all things.. including the laws of nature.. and the laws of human morality... and they are unchanging as He is....
To say they had no proof is not reasonable... they documented their proof in the Bible, their direct witness to events, and how they lived their lives after witnessing such....
You just don’t believe them... dismissing their accounts because it involves the super natural, which you believe does not exist... that is part of your faith as well... you have no proof they lied... yet you condemn them for it.
I wish you well... and again, I mean no offense... even if you believe I do... so I hope you take none....
Amazing... His very name translates to the
No I don’t mean to offend... if you take offense... that is something you need to reflect upon...
SO YOU LIE AS WELL. typical of people that have messiah/christ complex.
As for you thoughts... it is simple... you believe there is no such thing as morality, all of it is cost vs. benefit. profit vs. loss, both variable perceptions and intensities.
So is it depending on what is beneficial... for you or society.. who makes the decision... If others disagree and they have more power... is that beneficial or not?
As such.. suing your reasoning.... anything may be found to be acceptable... so Hitler, if he had won WWII... would have been redeemed... because he triumphed over others thinking... and benefited his nation... so if enough find it acceptable... than such would be of most benefit?
History is written by the victors. A GOOD EXAMPLE is the jesus blood sacrifice and body eating/blood drinking.
only a god can do to absolve you of your sins, how dare I say, I can pay for my own mistakes.
IMHO.. there is morality in your argument.. but painfully, using your definition... it is up to those with greatest power and influence to define it... in addition to what is good.. and what is bad...
that’s the way it is. I disagree with roe vs. wade ,not because of a religious excuse but a scientific and logical one. because roe v.wade is now the law, because it won. the powerful now force it on all.
You assume to know there is no God.. but have stated you need proof... the first law of physics dictates the existence we live in is not possible... yet we are here... so is the first law invalid...?
you haven’t offered a ptoof that we are here.
Insanity is knowing a law exists that is fundamental to our very existence... and not understanding that something outside of that law defined it and satisfied it... Ask yourself... who defined the laws of the universe... they are observed... and measurable... thus defined... or do you hold... they just are what they are... there is no evolution of the physical law... it has always been this way... so again... how were they defined?
You may wish to believe science has yet to figure that out yet, but will... that is called faith in man and his intelligence....
In the end, science and man are the gods of atheists... you may not see it as such.. but you do have faith that there are answers to things that are unknown to us today... and man, using reason and science, will figure them out....
I believe that we live in a world of design and reason... for a purpose (to know and love God) based upon, and as dictated by, the unchanging laws we find in nature (chaos is not found in nature... it is predictable and governed by law)... I believe God defined those laws as well as all the matter in creation....
And yes... the Bible was transcribed by men, as moved by God, to let us know why we are here and what our purpose is... to let us know he was the Creator of all things.. including the laws of nature.. and the laws of human morality... and they are unchanging as He is....
To say they had no proof is not reasonable... they documented their proof in the Bible, their direct witness to events, and how they lived their lives after witnessing such....
You just don’t believe them... dismissing their accounts because it involves the super natural, which you believe does not exist... that is part of your faith as well... you have no proof they lied... yet you condemn them for it.
proof denies the need for faith.
so do you have faith or proof? you cannot have both. it is one or the other, what does your bible say about faith and proof? the ones I have read said you can only be pleasing to god if you have faith. so which is it?
I wish you well... and again, I mean no offense... even if you believe I do... so I hope you take none....
Wow,
Plrase take a step back.... and yes I don’t mean to offend... but only have a discussion... obviously this is not going to happen... have a goodnight.
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