Should obese passengers pay more to fly?

BBC ^ | 20 October 2016 | Beth Blair

[Cronos]

Airlines want more money from heavy fliers, but some say it's a rights violation. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), obesity has more than doubled since 1980. In 2014, more than 1.9 billion adults were overweight, and over 600 million were obese. (WHO defines "overweight" as a BMI greater than or equal to 25 and "obese" as a BMI greater than or equal to 30.)

Last month, lawyer Giorgio Destro from Padua, Italy sued Emirates, claiming his flight was disrupted by an obese passenger seated next to him. According to reports, Destro was not able to comfortably sit in his assigned seat, and spent much of the nine-hour flight from Cape Town to Dubai standing or sitting in crew seats. His proof for the lawsuit? A selfie that includes his fellow passenger’s arm in his seat space.

...Many airlines have responded to the growing obesity epidemic by insisting passengers of size buy two seats to ensure safety and comfort. Sometimes the airline will offer a refund if there was at least one other empty seat on the flight.

[AndyTheBear]

6 foot 2 inches, broad shoulders. 270 pounds with a 44 inch waist and a chest that is significantly broader. When I diet and get lean and fit I get down to 235 pounds and still have a 42 inch waist. Going much under 235 would be unhealthy for me.

My trouble fitting in seats is at the shoulders and arms primarily and leg room secondarily. I do ok in aisle seat because I can have my shoulder out in aisle a bit. I have no problem with my waist fitting.

So essentially I am 35 pounds heavier than my ideal weight, but it would make no difference for how I fit in airline seats one way or the other.

[MacMattico]

My dad was a big guy and on his own would buy two seats. He was 6'4” and I’m not sure how much he weighed. On more than one occasion, after buying two seats, the airline attempted to or did give his second seat away. He would have to argue about it all the time, and he had purchased two seats.

On the other hand, the few times we travelled with him with children he would buy one seat and my children, who probably weighed less than 50 pounds sat next to him and they were all fine, having the entire row.

But I can tell you the way the airlines treated him at times lost them a lot of business— he bought two seats when necessary but would rather drive 1000 miles then put up with them. And if you’re going to charge by size/weight most of my family deserves a discount because they are smaller than average, not just the one that is larger paying more.

[mikey_hates_everything]

Put all the big and fat people together (or evenly distribute them in clumps if it affects aircraft weight and balance) and let them work it out among themselves. I’m tired of losing space I paid for.

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

500+lb fatsos who eat dessert pizzas and a dozen Jimmy Deans per day shouldn’t be allowed to fly period.

[9YearLurker]

Yet someone who weighs 90 pounds and takes up the same one seat of someone who weighs 180 pounds surely costs more than 50% of what it costs to carry the 180 pounder. A “fair” price thus would factor in per-seat costs as well.

The real answer, of course, is that airlines ought to be able to charge on whatever basis makes the most sense to them from a marketing perspective—or whatever they want to charge.

The issue is somewhat like a buffet restaurant setting its prices. A true-cost basis would be an inclusion of a per-seat cost and a per-pound cost of all of the food taken from the buffet. Yet, to be even more specific, there would be a per-pound cost specific to each item offered, with the mashed potatoes, for example, presumably being less costly than the baked salmon.

Yet, some, more deli-style, buffet restaurants charge per pound of food taken and essentially give the seating away free. Others charge on a per-seat “all you can eat” basis and don’t bother to charge for the weight of the buffet food taken. Few restaurants try to tease out a more specific pricing of different per-pound costs of different foods taken. Some rare restaurants may charge per seat plus only per pound for leaving an exceptional amount of unconsumed food on your plate. (A Japanese restaurant I know with a sushi buffet offers that threat.)

Anyway, though most airlines presumably wouldn’t want to charge per pound, a few may choose to do so—or some may do so in extreme cases only.

[nathanbedford]

As a conservative my reflex is to grant an airline the power to conduct its business and enter into contracts as it sees fit but, sadly, the matter is not so simple.

Airlines can only conduct their business in full cooperation and necessarily under the supervision of government. The plane loads passengers at a public airport, it's takes off from a public runway, it's communicates and navigates on our Victor Airways maintained by the government. Bearing hundreds of souls, it is necessarily under scrutiny for safety regulations as is any common carrier.

So airlines are regulated, before Ronald Reagan they were over regulated but now they have a degree of independence within which to maximize their profits and that, in turn, through the invisible hand of the marketplace produces the best and cheapest air transportation system available.

Now we are not discussing the safety of passengers which most people except the most committed libertarian would concede should be regulated by the government, we are moving from safety into the realm of passenger comfort.

When we speak of passenger comfort we are inclined to revert to our original position and argue that the passenger and the airline should have the power free of government to negotiate the price and size of the seats as well as the quality of the food or the rating of the movie. But again, alas, the matter is not that simple.

It's not that simple primarily because leftists simply will not leave it that way. To them the world consists of government in search of a problem. Inevitably, they will impose a solution on this dilemma of providing adequate seating for manly men and curvaceous women without infringing on the comfort zone of the punies in the next seat but they will seek to do so by stealth if necessary in order to gain credit without paying any political cost. A likely solution for them will be to require the airlines to provide oversized seating for heavyset people at no additional cost. This will appeal to the left because the costs are hidden because the costs are spread over 300 or 400 seats or more and the traveling public will likely be unaware why their ticket price went up a bit.

Such a regulation, it would come from from bureaucrats, is a win-win for leftists because inevitably the airlines will come begging to government to relieve them of the inevitably overbroad regulation which they will be only too happy to do in exchange for campaign contributions. If the large airlines can convince leftist bureaucrats or leftist politicians to erect barriers to entry against small time startup competitors, so much the better for them and so much the better for the politicians.

So from a simple everyday human exchange starting with an elbow in the ribs we have found a way for everyone to prosper-isn't that wonderful when we all realize that it takes a village because we didn't build that?

[9YearLurker]

On a similar principle, all those “manspreading” men taking up three seats in the subway car should presumably pay three times as much for a subway ride.

[arthurus]

I have always believed that the rational way to price air fare is weight. The passenger and all his luggage pays per pound. Then the 400 pound behemoth can get his two seats and is himself not rendered uncomfortable by the lumpy slimmer passenger that is already in one of them. The cost to fly a passenger is related to the amount of fuel used which is directly related to the weight of the cargo. More pounds carried = more fuel burned.

[wally_bert]

Yet one more reason I don’t care to fly.

[Joe Boucher]

Was it Randy Newman who sang,
Fat people got no reason to live?

[snoringbear]

At one time I was in supply chain Mgmt and ran a large distribution center which shipped virtually everything via air freight. Air freight rates are calculated utilizing what’s known as the DIM’s factor. It’s a calculation that takes into consideration both weight and deminsions. If weight only were used then it would cost virtually nothing to ship a plane load of potato chips. Conversely, if dimensions only were used it would cost a fortune to ship the same load of potato chips. An extreme example but hopefully you get the idea and thus the logic behind using DIM’s. Anyway, being 6’4” and 250 lbs, I try very hard not to intrude into others space. I’m not fat so I don’t intrude to the left or right. But, I am long legged and sometimes in economy class the person in front of me can tilt their seat as far back as they would like. I would be perfectly happy to pay my fair share for additional space and I usually do by flying business or now the newly introduced premium economy. All I want is a fair deal and get what I pay for. Actually, I live in the Dallas area and if I need to go to perhaps Austin, Houston, anywhere within about 200 miles I just drive as the total elapsed travel time is about the same as flying, sometimes better when driving. That’s it! :)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensional_weight

[from occupied ga]

You bet they should pay more. I sat next to a total lard ass (brought his own seat belt extender) once and he kept oozing into my seat. He asked me if he could raise the arm rest and I told him no that was the only thing keeping most of him out of my seat.

[FES0844]

Felt as you on my bus commute. Invariably, because I’m thin, someone would always find me!

[TheNext]

The short, thin, white, male, Christian is paying for everybody and should be raised as a National hero.

[maddog55]

Stopped flying in 2012 after about 25 years of 50k+ miles per year... no more TSA groping and fake feel good security BS. Business or 1st most of the time but even there the overly obese found a way to to invade your space not to mention those who can’t shut up.

[Neoliberalnot]

There is no doubt that if airlines charged by weight, there would be a massive, yes, a massive, shedding of adipose tissue by people who fly frequently. Public health wise, this would be a good thing.

[Tax-chick]

They can solve this by pricing your ticket per pound the same as they do with your luggage.

True. Charge everyone a median price up front, and then issue an additional charge for overage or a refund for underage at check-in.

[Tallguy]

I’m 6’5” and 235. I’m basically tall & thin, but I lift weights regularly. But according to the government’s BMI index I’m about 20-lbs overweight. If the airlines are going to do this then they need an objective standard. I’d just be leery of them using a government stat that can be manipulated by the simple whim of a regulator.

Oh, and I might be willing to pay more for that ticket if the airlines put in a few rows with more leg-room. But you see they won’t do this because of the headaches it cases the flight reservation systems. If you get, as I once did, the University of Nevada’s basketball team on one of your flights, then there won’t be any extra leg-room seats no matter how many there are.

[Fresh Wind]

If you ship a package airmail, guess what?

They charge more for a larger/heavier package, and that includes the USPS, part of the US government.

Does that violate the rights of the person who shipped the package?

[xzins]

Fat people should boycott flying altogether