Serendipity yields a process to convert carbon dioxide directly into ethanol

Watts Up With That? ^ | October 18, 2016 | By Anthony Watts

[Brad from Tennessee]

OAK RIDGE, Tenn.,—In a new twist to waste-to-fuel technology, scientists at the Department of Energy’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory have developed an electrochemical process that uses tiny spikes of carbon and copper to turn carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, into ethanol. Their finding, which involves nanofabrication and catalysis science, was serendipitous. Video follows.

“We discovered somewhat by accident that this material worked,” said ORNL’s Adam Rondinone, lead author of the team’s study published in ChemistrySelect. “We were trying to study the first step of a proposed reaction when we realized that the catalyst was doing the entire reaction on its own.”

The team used a catalyst made of carbon, copper and nitrogen and applied voltage to trigger a complicated chemical reaction that essentially reverses the combustion process. With the help of the nanotechnology-based catalyst which contains multiple reaction sites, the solution of carbon dioxide dissolved in water turned into ethanol with a yield of 63 percent. Typically, this type of electrochemical reaction results in a mix of several different products in small amounts. . .

[Blueflag]

The stoichiometry at their site doesn’t work for me. They are missing some atoms here and there.

https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/co2-to-ethanol.jpg

Ya gotta balance the equation ...

And this HAS to be endothermic. HOW endothermic is it?

[Rebel_Ace]

"...carbon, copper and nitrogen and applied voltage..."

In other words, the process requires energy.
Not surprising, it's the law of physics.
Where will that energy come from? Will it be cost effective?

I think you miss an essential point. You can think of the ethanol as "storing" the energy from the "applied voltage".

What are the biggest issues with the so called "renewable" forms of energy, like Wind and Solar? They don't work all the time. They are not located where the energy is needed. How do you "store" extra wind? How do you "store" sunlight for nighttime? How do you "transport" wind energy from the plains to the cities where it's needed?

So, imagine this catalyst process where the "applied current" comes from a bank of solar cells. The burnable ethanol is literally a way to "store" the energy for later.

As long as you are not doing something as stupid as burning Natural Gas or Coal, to turn a turbine to make electricity to power the catalytic process, you can consider it a "net gain" in stored energy, which can be bottled and transported where needed.

[Blueflag]

ALSO ... If ya right ahead and BURN that ethanol, you create THREE molecules of greenhouse gas - CO2 *and* water vapor. So you use extra energy, and then what?

ohmygeersh.

cue the dancing oh-noes.

[Milton Miteybad]

Exactly...I just finished dealing with carburetor issues caused by using E-10 in a power washer. So the upshot of this story is that the Department of Energy has developed a brand new method of producing a faulty fuel additive that doesn't actually result in fewer "greenhouse gas" emissions, but only screws up the fuel systems of small engines instead.

Your tax dollars at work. ;-)

[Gaffer]

The best use is to keep it contained within the corn and other materials that are destroyed to make it, frankly.

Destroy a food product that could feed the world to make some frigging government-mandate, government-subsidized product that decreases engine performance, rots gaskets, seals and corrodes internal metal parts and tubing - all to pander to some corn whore constituency looking to hike prices on their crops..

That’s what it is.

[dsrtsage]

Perhaps they can put it in a sealed room with an engine burning ethanol and create a perpetual motion machine

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Yes...but is it efficient? Meaning, is the output greater than the input?

[bert]

There is irony here

I visited the Jack Daniels Distillery in Lynchburg Tennessee. As an ethanol producer, they ferment mash to ethanol releasing large amounts of CO2.

Part of the tour includes some info that the black coloration of trees and certain structures is the result of bacterial growth that thrives on the abundant CO2 in the proximity atmosphere.

It would seem that the distillery could capture the abundant CO2 emissions and create vodka as a distillation by product.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

>>My personal thought is that they can take that ethanol and shove it up their rectum.<<

Hmmmm...booze suppositories, strange concept.

Haha! Kindred spirits...

I take it you don't drink.

I cannot even begin to describe all the low life descriptions of its proponents are and the complete downside of ALL of it.

True, but it's all in the percentage. It's a cheap and benign "octane" booster and fuel system cleaner, but 10% is way too high. Maybe 1 to 3% would do it. There are good uses for the left-over hooch.

... when there are other sources of fuel available.

True, but gasoline has always had additives (lead, Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether) Did I mention, it's a cheap benign "octane" booster?

Nothing good or worthwhile comes from ethanol...

I propose flooding the islamic world with cheap (free) powerful hooch. It civilized the barbarians in Europe, the alcoholic jihadis would be too drunk to wage war. They could just fight amongst themselves.

Weapons-grade ethanol.

[BitWielder1]

You're right that it makes no sense burning something else to make electricity to make ethanol for energy purposes.
That leaves solar.
The question of efficiency is still legitimate.
Can they make, install and maintain a field of ethanol generating solar panels that are more cost effective than planting and processing corn?
Or drilling for oil.

[NorthMountain]

And I have been using stabilized E10 in my (4-cycle) small engines for 15 years with no negative issues whatsoever.

[Stosh]

I kinda like the traditional approach:

CO2 + corn plant ————> corn

corn + Pappy Yokum —————> corn likker

[Boogieman]

“The team used a catalyst made of carbon, copper and nitrogen and applied voltage to trigger a complicated chemical reaction that essentially reverses the combustion process.”

How much voltage did they have to apply, though? If it is greater than the energy they could release from burning the ethanol, then the process is useless for making fuel.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

it would just be a matter of how to appropriately ‘flavor’ it.

Well, they could brew/distill flavorful spirits, concentrating on the character, and then just add the "kick" afterwards.

Just like at the pump: Yes sir, would you like the Jack Daniels regular or the high-test?

[Cboldt]

-- I would think that it violates some law of physics to convert carbon dioxide and water back into a hydrocarbon, and use less energy than was yielded by the original combustion. --

Second law of thermodynamics.

[Gaffer]

Cheap octane booster IS NOT MANDATORY. Nor has anyone proven that the current Ethanol blends do more good than harm to engines that haven’t been needlessly ‘hardened’ (and made more expensive in the process).

Further, there is no government site, ethanol site or its proponents that can provide verifiable proof that ethanol in any concentration provides more efficiency than plain cracked gasoline.

As for the additives you cite, the plethora of ‘blends’ today are usually government mandated to show deference to some hysterical group. The added lead is a sort of lubricant added to ease friction, etc. We now have to pay MORE for gas that keeps lead out to make “unleaded” gas. How fair is that?

I will never buy the efficacy-of-ethanol crap in any form whatsoever. I KNOW better.

[Boogieman]

"They need to find a way to use ethanol other than burning it."

Been there, done that:

[cicero2k]

My first thought: cold fusion, it’s 1989 all over again.

[Gaffer]

As I have seen thus far, there is no site, government or otherwise that even has the balls to come out and lie and say ethanol does not decrease mileage efficiency.

[TexasGator]

How do you Crack oil into gas on Mars?