Posted on 04/13/2016 7:44:52 PM PDT by Olog-hai
If I had a guy, he would no doubt be in trouble. It’s a “hold your nose” year.
Please note that my post was generic. You can insert any name and make it work.
Okay, now that you mention it, can you edify those of us who would like to know what you’re talking about?
Yes, see post 21 for the scriptural evidence. What Abraham and Moses share are hearts of mercy. Both plead with God to show mercy on stone cold dead sinners; hearts of compassion, as it were, an unbroken chain.
There were two exiles. The people of both the north and south kingdoms both spoke Hebrew (and other languages). They were all cousins, descended from the same patriarchs, and of course they intermingled. But the northern kingdom was exiled hundreds of years prior to the Jew’s captivity by Babylon. Where one was living at the time of the conquests would certainly have determined his fate, but where one lived was primarily determined by tribal geography. You focus on outliers.
The Lord has always taken those who sincerely seek him, and that would, of course, include those of the errant northern tribes who chose to center their lives around Jerusalem.
If you’re trying for broad definition of Jew, you must include those of Moab and Canaan whose bloodlines flowed through the Messiah, a precursor for those of us Gentiles who would also be adopted into the family.
Seems we’re talking about two things here: Genetic Jewishness and metaphorical. I’ve enjoyed the discussion. Must go now.
Thank you.
Joseph’s sons, specifically.
In Revelation 7:3-8 where it talks about the sealing of the 144,000, all of the Israelite tribes are mentioned except for Dan; the tribe of Ephraim is for some reason called the “tribe of Joseph” (verse 8).
Since Judaism, by definition, rejects the New Testament and its claims, Jewish interpretation of the Torah/Old Testament will differ from that of Christians. Consequently, Kasich, an Anglican, should not try to discuss the Jewish perspective on the relative importance of Abraham vs. Moses. He is running for the Presidency and not for the position of chief theologian.
Abraham had eight sons, Ishmael, Issac, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah.
One (Issac) was by his legal wife and the other by his concubines Keturah and Hagar.
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me. ..................
And perhaps reject Moses for receiving the law. Law being a "living" thing.
A Jew by conversion, technically.
Very clever; what do Buckeyes see in this person?
I say, what do you see in Kasich; remember, GHWB was asked what he saw in Dan Quayle, and GHWB could hardly muster an answer.
Can’t we all just agree to disagree. Enough with all these interfaith encounters. There are some shared values, but so were there 1,000 years ago as well. Right now there’s a shared enemy, and the war’s already here, so what’s needed between Jews and Christians are pragmatic alliances, not touchy-feely theological gobbledygook.
Agreed!
i am not pitting Abraham against Moses, I am calling Moses inheritor of Abraham and both inheritors of the justice and spirit of Christ. For when a son honors father, a father honors son. Thus, arguably, Abraham is inheritor of Moses too, because, imbo, Moses and the wonders of God then honored Abraham and he would have honored them.
When Kasich implies that somehow this honor works for muslims is ridiculous ... and that somehow Moses is a lower prophet. As a matter of fact muslims do not believe that either. They believe the Caliph is a higher prophet than Mohammed, and that the Dedjel is even the progenitor of Allah himself.
I just cringe and feel sick when I try to imagine Kasich deciding that he as a Christian needed to lecture a group of devout Jews as to the meaning of their holy books. He apparently is as boorish and condescending as he is chillingly arrogant and self-impresses. What this group of Jews have forgotten about the Bible, Kasich hasn’t even learned yet. Mr. Big Shot Kasich, go back to your Ohio Kiwanis Club where you can be king of the buckeyes.
**In Romans 10 and 11, the apostle Paul paints a rather lovely portrait of love for the entire Israelite nation, including those of us Gentile believers who have been adopted in.**
Actually, Paul starts his lament about the Israelites in Chapter 9:2-4:
“That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my BRETHERN, my KINSMAN according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises...”.
Paul made no tribal distinction. He simply referred to the Israelites according to the flesh. Yes, the Gentiles can be grafted in to become spiritual Israelites. But, Jesus made it clear that he was not sent to the Gentiles, when he spoke to the Canaanite woman. He followed the law blameless, such as when he told the healed leper to go and show himself to the priest, and offer the things that Moses commanded. He didn’t say that to the Canaanite woman.
**Moab and Canaan**
The bloodline is traced through the fathers, not the mothers. So Rahab and Ruth aren’t viewed as bloodline.
Also, God told Moses that he is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He didn’t mention Ishmael or Esau in that declaration. The male bloodline of the Messiah was unbroken descendants from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Looks like you’ve covered the ‘lost tribes’ issue if you ask me.
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