Posted on 02/19/2016 5:07:38 PM PST by rpierce
No, no he can't. That's why there are appeals. Which is what Apple is doing.
So, you have no locks on your doors? How is the 4th A. supposed to protect me from some thief? The 4th. A. is not there to authorize the govt. to demand everyone use weak locks, so that it is convenient for them to search properties when a suspected party is served a warrant.
When the govt. demands everyone use breakable locks, and couples that with a long history of incompetence in securing data and a long history of violating rights when some govt. hack decides to cut legal corners, then yes, I will protect myself from both the hacks and the other criminals out there. Present a valid warrant with probable cause, and I will open my locks. Demand your own key on the chance you may want in some day, and I say, get stuffed.
“Ah. So a Judge can declare anything, and it is so.”
In this particular case, yes. yes they can.
“No, no he can’t. That’s why there are appeals. Which is what Apple is doing.”
Well, you just said that the court can’t just compel them to appear. If they don’t need to appear, why is there an appeal? A loser, by the way, that appeal. There is no defense against this. I think even a liberal Supreme Court has to side with the Feds, no matter how much they hate America. You don’t use “I don’t want to” as a reason for not complying with a Federal investigation of terrorists that have committed a mass murderer and accept that as an answer. Unless you are fool or a liberal. Pardon my redundancy, as W.C. Fields use to say.
Where did I say that? I said the govt. cannot compel you to build something for them that does not exist. What has that do do with "appearing"? Compelling a 3rd party to invent something to convenience the government is not "reasonable", and so exceeds the authority of the "writ act".
When did FR get so over-run with statist toadies? You like rule by decree?
You: “Ah. So a Judge can declare anything, and it is so.â€
Me: In this particular case, yes. yes they can.
You: “No, no he can’t. That’s why there are appeals. Which is what Apple is doing.â€
Hahahahahaha. No, you didn’t say they could’t be compelled.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmph. Run along Junior.
They don’t need to “invent” anything. They need to keep the autodestruct from being triggered. Thier head manly man has already conceded that culd be done. And since you didn’t read it the first time, they didn’t ask for anything but a ram memory only card for that one usit. The court also gave them the option of keeping possession of it and the FBI would run the routine AFTER the lockout was removed from remote, keeping no part of it.
You don’t know dick about what your talking about and even worse, you don’t read what you whine about being posted over and over. What waste of bandwidth you are.
since the county owns the phone, why could not the county take it to Apple and request it be opened?
what this means is that if I lost my pass code, the phone becomes worthless because I can’t take it to Apple for recovery
And how, oh sage, do you suggest they do that without inventing a method to do so? Pull it out of thin air? Wave a magic wand? How are they to produce this RAM card, without creating the software on it, which Apple says does not currently exist?
There ain't no such beast as "one-use" software. Once it is developed, it won't be undeveloped. That's like demanding a recipe be formulated to bake one cake. This isn't about making the cake, it's about being forced to create the recipe, because if that is done, everyone will want cake. The government is big on forcing people to bake cake.
Lex as much as I enjoy good spirited debate I believe this to be a lost cause with Jess. But I applaud you for fighting the good fight. Once he spouted off about him hoping I never had children abducted or a will to contest it became personal. Then the break into personal profiles and win ratios and other muck, conclusion is already defined in their minds we shall not end on the same lines.
I wish I could convey my personal background and connections as to why I believe the way I do about this issue but I can’t. So I will just be a random poster on a forum.
But to mrsmith I would convey that the day is indeed arriving where one will choose. Do the people have a right to use encryption? Or shall we fall back to DES 3DES and become subject to ITAR in our own country.
https://www.schneier.com Who I’ve had the pleasure of working with on a previous project has a excellent write up, and I strongly encourage everyone to read it. I believe it to be spot on from a technical standpoint.
And I really hope we don’t continue being spammed by copy and paste geniuses.
“There ain’t no such beast as “one-use” software. Once it is developed, it won’t be undeveloped. That’s like demanding a recipe be formulated to bake one cake. This isn’t about making the cake, it’s about being forced to create the recipe, because if that is done, everyone will want cake. The government is big on forcing people to bake cake.”
Well, this is exactly how stupid your argument is. The govt. DOES NOT WANT THE PHONE OR THE CODE. They want the information on the phone. They don’t care how Apple gets it. Until Cook admitted it already existed, the court offed to pay for it! (also covered in the order I provided you). So, following your twisted logic, because either you refuse to read the order or just want to wring your hands and whine like a girl, the threat of letting the key loose to roam the world would and could only be the threat of APPLE DOING IT!!
It’s bullshit. Apple knows it and most adults above 12 know it. Cook says it already exists. The feds (if you STILL haven’t read the order) don’t want the phone back, don’t want the “master key” or anything of the sort. Since this is the fifth time you’ve insisted that poor poor Apple is under assault because of the massive problem with the “magic Key” I suggest you read the information that is out there. Goodnight, sweetheart. Sweet dreams.
Apple vs. FBI: 9 Updates in the Fight Over a Killer’s Locked iPhone
MEDIA | By Joan E. Solsman on February 22, 2016 @ 5:26 pm
http://www.thewrap.com/apple-vs-fbi-9-updates-fight-locked-iphone/
“Lex as much as I enjoy good spirited debate...”
As long as you can ignore the facts and improv them, yes I bet you do. But you have still refused to do anything but throw up a bunch of dust.
The govt had the data just sitting on the phone just waiting to be copied onto the Cloud where it could be more easily processed. Apple voluntarily wanted to copy the data to the Cloud but was sabotaged by the govt tampering with the evidence (phone) and bricking the ability to copy to the Cloud.
Why isn’t the govt employee who tampered with the evidence being publicly fired and prosecuted. Malice or incompetence on the employees part?
This case need not have escalated if good evidence handling had been done but maybe they needed an emotional case to tie the privacy intrusion to.
The Byzantine logical arguments from both sides are quite entertaing - please continue.
“This case need not have escalated if good evidence handling had been done but maybe they needed an emotional case to tie the privacy intrusion to.”
I don’t know, I think there was some lame excuse about trying to get more information fast because there were all these people murdered or something. Some people get pretty wound up and take all this jihad business seriously, so they go as fast as they can, not thinking they were gonna run into some tech taboo and get voted off the island.
My understanding is that they tried what they could right away because this wasn’t mental masturbation for them, they were hoping to catch more murderers. Moving quickly is important in this kind of case is important to some more than others. They probably knew that any decent company would just say OK and get the info out for them, so they tried to do what they could with the clock ticking.
As for Apple, they weren’t even asked to do anything that had to do with their code, nothing but help get the information out. Tim the drama queen pushed it over the edge at that point. He probably could have pulled one out of his ass that day. If it wasn’t already occupied.
It is pretty hilarious that they turned it into this whole thing...fate of the world balanced on a razor’s edge if we get the info for you. The trials won’t be anywhere near as entertaining if Tim continues the hissy fit all the way to the Supremes, not without Justice Scalia there. Would have been priceless. No telling where they will push this...
You missed the point that Apple (did say OK) was helping them voluntarily and timely data could have been gotten pre-tampering. After the govt tampering (which you attribute to panic), even with Apple caving to creating a back door, you are looking at a long drawn out process to create software and hardware that has never existed. Regardless of how Apple decided, the self inflicted foot wound had already destroyed the possibility of quickly getting timely intel from the phone. For sure the govt screwed up and the courts will judge whether Apple also did likewise.
If you read the snarky not very dignified 35 page legal filing from the govt you wonder if its all not just a pissing contest.
Unfortunatey we get to watch the legal grass grow and won’t know who the good guys are until the legal process is complete - next hearing in a month.
“Act in haste and repent at leisure.”
Microsoft founder Gates backs FBI in encryption fight with Apple
Published February 23, 2016 FoxNews.com
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The clash between Apple and FBI heats up
Microsoft founder Bill Gates has broken with other Silicon Valley giants by backing the FBI in its battle with Apple over hacking into a locked iPhone as part of the investigation into last December’s San Bernardino terror attack.
In an interview with the Financial Times published Tuesday, Gates said a court order requiring Apple to help the FBI access a work phone belonging to gunman Syed Farook was “ a specific case where the government is asking for access to information. They are not asking for some general thing, they are asking for a particular case.â€
Gates went on to compare the FBI request to accessing bank and telephone records. However, he added that the government must be subject to rules about when it can access such information.
I hope that we have that debate so that the safeguards are built and so people do not opt, and this will be country by country. [to say] it is better that the government does not have access to any information. Gates said.
The San Bernardino County-issued iPhone 5C was used by Farook, who with his wife, Tashfeen Malik, killed 14 people at an office holiday party in December before they died in a gun battle with police. The government said they had been at least partly inspired by ISIS.
“You missed the point that Apple (did say OK) was helping them voluntarily and timely data could have been gotten pre-tampering. After the govt tampering (which you attribute to panic)...”
I did no such attribution. I said that there (it is said) was a presumption that there would be assistance to rally around someone who is trying to piece together a picture of a known enemy that just killed 14 people and they couldn’t conceive that they would not get assistance from the people who built the phone or that the assholes that did build it would take advantage of a mass murder for political and market points. The over exaggeration of the “software creation” that you are bent on supporting is for the idiots who gobble up this apple sauce.
YOU may not know who the good guys are...which says more about you than them...but most Americans do. I don’t know where the little apple cabal comes from or why they would support such a ludicrous position, but you are right, I guess we will see. Maybe when the dust is cleared, apple can hire the Dixies Chicks to sing their new jingle for them...”Screw America, We’re in it for Ourselves.”
Thanks for the link, unfortunately Gates is already, walking things back, claiming that he was not accurately interpreted by the media. It should be interesting to see what he really thinks even though he doesn’t have a canine in the silly pissing contest.
But unless the Tech Guy is also a collaborator wouldn't there be notations of what the new code was?
Yet again maybe there was an out of USA device that was used through sync to change the USA PASSWORD from Islamland somewhere?
Why not remove the chip and do a work around?
If everyone chooses like you have, that they would rather have the unbreakable protection of encryption than of the Fourth Amendment warrant, I’ll just have to find protection until you learn the error of that choice.
Apparently you’re all going to make that choice unconsciously.
Thanks for reminding us of the trite old song “Feelings.” After parsing out the emotional baggage in your post there is nothing left. Ad hominem instead of logical discussion indicates desperation to the rest of us.
There are interesting new stories about the issue. The debate continues on other threads.
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