Three of Cliven Bundy's sons, militia seize federal building in Oregon

Washington Examiner ^ | 1/2/16 10:04 PM | DAN FRIEDMAN, KYLE FELDSCHER

[TBP]

Three of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy's sons and what they claim are 150 militia members have occupied a federal building in eastern Oregon in order to keep two local ranchers out of prison, according to local reports.

The group is believed to be heavily-armed.

According to The Oregonian, the group seized the headquarters building at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge about 50 miles outside Burns, Ore. The remote facility was closed and unoccupied at the time.

Bundy and his supporters were in Oregon after two men were scheduled to go to prison on Monday for setting fires on federal land, according to a report by Oregon Public Broadcasting. The case has caused a stir in eastern Oregon because the two men were charged under anti-terrorism laws.

[Democratic-Republican]

Intentional or outrageously reckless conduct is sufficient to constitute malice.

Well I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night ...

And I say that is a load of crap. Any prosecutor worth his law degree would exercise discretion, or the judge or jury would toss that level of over-charging even if it were on the books in the first place.

A falling over drunk, as bad as he may be, is not going to be charged with intentional harm if they in fact cause some. Nor would an insane person, or a retard, or a (D)ummycrat ( as we all know is always the case ).

Even if English isn't your first language, or, even if you want to redefine plain words we all know ( MALICE == INTENT TO DO HARM ), you cannot possibly believe that is kosher in an innocent until proven guilty system of jurisprudence.

You were right about one thing though, in that intent was NOT necessary in this particular case of FedGov overzealousness.

[Nextrush]

I’m not here to condemn anyone but I am concerned about crazy actions replacing sane and sober ones.

The government officials seem to think they are above the law in some cases, how citizens react is also important.

The Hammonds were trying to protect their land with backfires, the feds say it burned theirs and threatened their personnel on the land.

God Bless All and I hope there is a peaceful end but I will accept other outcomes as well. The Higher Power is in charge of things.

[Mechanicos]

You do know that protestors occupying a gov building over claimed infringement of rights has been held to be protected freedom of speech under the 1st?

That’s arguably all this is, a protest by occupiers engaged in civil disobedience- likely protected free speech.

[Jim W N]

“Trust” or not, it is unconstitutional and the states must reclaim these lands.

[kiryandil]

...the feds say it burned theirs and threatened their personnel on the land.

Pretty much anything that comes out of the mouth of a Fed is a lie.

[redreno]

White conservative folks taking control of abandoned outhouse on Federal land. Demanding, “free stuff.” Getting placed on the terrorist watch & no fly list, instead. Priceless.

[Jagdgewehr]

Well said!

[conservaKate]

According to the court documents, these guys started the fire on purpose to cover poaching. These same guys then intimidated relatives to keep their mouths shut.

Starting a fire on purpose anywhere ... let alone the dry as all get out west is crazy dangerous. They were tried and found guilty.

BUT ... these same guys had stated they would turn themselves in and are not (it would seem) part of the take over of a government building. This is a small rural town in E Oregon ... and most of the folks in this town want nothing to do with *outside agitators*.

[KC Burke]

bump

[Carry_Okie]

What do we know of her culture, not much, most if not all history was only recorded with the oncoming event of white man. We can romanticize of an ecological Indian of course, but we really have no idea what really occurred. Historically and Ecologically are just speculation at best. For thousands of year, all we know is perhaps a fire got out of control here and there, we do not know if practiced any form of land management.

Well, as you suggest, reality is more complex. I've read some 5,000 pages of Spanish diaries and Indian ethnographies. Here in California, we actually have very good records of first contact conditions, diaries that describe management activities and consequences in some detail. I'm the last guy in the world to romanticize how those Indians lived. I have been engaged in and documented a uniquely successful native plant restoration project for 25 years. So I actually do have some authority for what I said.

Now how would more forests exist today than back when there was perfect harmony and control with Indians? What would cause there to be less forest then than now? Big Fires perhaps that would of been even bigger if not for occasional fire started by lightning.

No, frequent fires, because they kill seedlings.

You put all things under his feet. For in making man the ruler over all things, God did not put anything outside his authority; though we do not see everything under him now. Hebrews 2:8 Bible in Basic English version

I don't deify Paul. He was a student of rabbi Gamaliel in the tradition of the Pharisees. Having read the entire Talmud Yershalmi Tractate Sheviis on the Sabbath for the Land, and having unearthed its original intent which was NOT practiced by the Jewish people at that time (for military reasons), and having spent two years re-translating Genesis 4 (because it's a mess), I suspect I have a better grip on that original intent. In fact, it illuminates much of what Yeshua had to say because HE quite apparently understood that original intent as expressed in Matthew 25. So I wrote a book on it. The Torah was written as a teaching using a skeleton of (even then) ancient oral histories likely derived from the time Moshe was living with Yitro the Midianite priest.

[DestroyLiberalism]

Reno89519 wrote:
<<
As I wrote in another thread, the federal government needs to use whatever force necessary to protect public property, arrest these militia, jail them, convict them, and send them to prison. As an American, a veteran, I say zero tolerance to inciting rebellion and taking up arms against the US. These thugs are no better than the people rioting in Baltimore, occupying Wall Street, etc. They are definitely not someone any red-blooded American conservative should be supporting.
>>

************************************************************

Thank you for your service, but I couldn't disagree more with your position. Have you not been paying attention to the reckless, lawless, and destructive imperialism and soft tyranny that the current regime in Washington D.C. has imposed on these ranchers, and the rest of the U.S. citizenry for that matter, over the past seven years? The checks-and-balances system built into the three branches of our federal government have been corrupted and destroyed by these thugs and as a result our individual liberties are clearly endangered. So here, read what it says We the People can do about it in Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

[Democratic-Republican]

According to the court documents, these guys started the fire on purpose to cover poaching. These same guys then intimidated relatives to keep their mouths shut.

Read the entire chronology here and then decide if you believe that. You must have read the prosecutors allegations, which are precisely the problem here. It's about going back over and over to ruin the lives of American citizens by overzealous civil servants with unlimited time and budgets to spend.

And it dwarfs anything that King George and his Court ever did.

[Georgia Girl 2]

I agree. No doubt the BLM has been persecuting this family and trying to get their ranch for years. But Aamon Bundy is not playing this smart.

[conservaKate]

I read court documents. Sometimes people do stupid things .. these guys did something stupid and dangerous. They also said they would turn themselves in .. so this takeover is not their doing.

[crz]

Tell that to the states who are federal money addicted.
Let me know how well you do.

[Democratic-Republican]

I read court documents. Sometimes people do stupid things .. these guys did something stupid and dangerous. They also said they would turn themselves in .. so this takeover is not their doing.

"Read" as rhyming with 'deed' or with 'red'?

I'm guessing 'read' like 'deed' which means you won't read anything *not* a court document? So that leaves what besides prosecutor allegations? Friend of Court briefs? Let me guess, you've been on a jury and think the only facts are those that the judge allows. Ever heard of a corrupt judge? A corrupt prosecutor?

Glad you missed Waco. Nothing happened there except for a gun-law violator.

[Carry_Okie]

Sometimes people do stupid things .. these guys did something stupid and dangerous.

How much do you really know personally about fire and range management, as opposed to what lawyers say about it?

[Java4Jay]

BUMP

[Sioux-san]

ARSON: The crime of maliciously, voluntarily, and willfully setting fire to the building, buildings, or other property of another or of burning one’s own property for an improper purpose, as to collect insurance.

I read more about this case and what these two men admitted to doing. If I am trying to protect my property, and I burn brush and undergrowth to reduce forest fires on my property and that fire spreads to your property, then I have caused you damage for sure - but it was not intentional, which I believe should have to be proven for a charge of arson. I should have to compensate you for that damage. Prison time sounds to me like a punishment that doesn’t fit the crime. The Feds have control over the majority of land out West. Is that “Proper”? Shooting five or six deer sends people to prison? That’s a police state punishment, IMHO.

[cva66snipe]

Case in point, Just had my shed broken into last night and my 100 plus lb. generator stolen, about 10 feet from my bedroom no less. I called the sheriff’s office against my first thought and a deputy showed up, took down the particulars, and promptly asked me if that vehicle in the driveway was mine. Obviously the tool was going to run my plates to make sure I wasn’t a criminal. WTF? I’ll take care of my own problems from now on, count on it.

Deputies run plates on cars parked in driveways all the time usually at night trying to find someones rural residence they were called too where the property owner didn't put numbers on the mailbox or house. This is so they don't have to wake everyone up. But as to why he would ask if that was your vehicle? He may not have any bad motives but realizes that thieves wait a few weeks many times {for insurance claim to be processed and new items bought} to return for a second visit and know what did and did not belong there. IOW he'll put your address down for extra patrol {meaning a look see when he's patrolling the area for possible vehicles in your driveway that doesn't belong} trying to get your property back and catch the thief.

Yes thieves often do hit twice in the same place. One question. Was the vehicles tags readable meaning pointing toward the street? Or backed in where if at zero dark thirty he saw it and could not run it because he could not see it? He likely wrote down the car make etc and made a note so he will know it belongs there and not have to bother you. You called him to report your property stolen. He is taking needed info to try and catch the crook and maybe get your property back.