Posted on 12/02/2015 3:29:54 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper
The 28-nation US-led group agreed to start the entry process at a meeting of foreign ministers in Brussels this morning, Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said.
The move will be seen as a warning to the Kremlin that its influence in the region is waning, despite a show of strength during last year's annexation of Crimea and the subsequernt bombing campaign in Syria.
In retaliation, Russia has warned that Montenegro will be punished for the action.
(Excerpt) Read more at express.co.uk ...
Thoughts from the military guys one the board?
Why do we keep poking Russia. They are not the military they once were and ISIS is wreaking havoc all over the world.
We will go to war over Turkey? why?
it seems our alliances are a little screwed up right now.
Saudi Arabia and Qatar might as well be parts of NATO, as they are protected as much as any NATO country would be. It’s absurd.
You are against free people choosing their own destiny based on what Putin likes?
My hurried opinion is because Putin will not subsume his nation’s interests to the Euro-socialist Amero-socialist orchestration of monolithic federated world governance.
OR
A continuation of “the great game” that has been
in play between the Spanish, Italian, French, German, and Anglo powers for the last 500 years or so.....usually at Russia’s expense as they never let her in the club.
I will return to see what greater minds than mine opine.
All strong points for joining, particularly considering that it will be at net-cost benefit to Montenegro. The amount of money it will use will not be much, and its contribution to NATO is basically negligible, thus it gets real benefit and relatively little/zero cost.
With that said, I wish NATO would not just focus on Russia. As dangerous as Russia may potentially be (ask Georgia and Ukraine), the fact is that Russia is not even half the danger that China is. The Russian economy is around the size of Italy's, it is going through what may very well be a recession, there are a lot of sanctions on it, and it is largely reliant on a single commodity for the most part.
The Chinese economy, on the other hand, is the world's second largest, it is basically impossible for the West to put sanctions on China, and there is no single economic target they can use against them (unlike Russia's oil-price Achilles' heel). Additionally, the Chinese military program is wholly and truly centered at the US program, be it its anti-access ballistic missiles, the military bases that its building everywhere (including artificially created islands on atolls), and its future weapons development. Its military has grown significantly over the last 15 years, both in terms of quantity and quality, and they are not shy in saying why they are building it up. Moreover, it has been quite belligerent towards its neighbors, and considers the waters near China to be Chinese (even though technically they are not), and that includes the resources under those waters (oil and gas).
However, nothing much against China.
So, as much as I may not like Russia, and as much as I think it is okay for Montenegro (and any other small insignificant country to join ...maybe my own country can join also if the likes of Montenegro can ...), I think maybe the focus may not be fully correct. Yes, encircle Russia all you want. After all, Putin does have some interesting ambitions. However, the real issue is being totally ignored, and that makes little sense.
Unless the real issue is that maybe they know there is little they can do against China, so why bother? There are many solutions that can be effectively done against Russia, yet there are few that can be done against China (similar to how Iraq could be bombed, but Saudi Arabia can never, due to the fact that the House of Saud controls the flow of spice ...I mean, the flow of oil ...).
Reminds me when I was younger and finally bulked up a bit, and for a short period of time that got into my head and I'd bully other students. I always knew which ones I could push around and which ones I could not, and thus chose the unfortunate saps well (again, that was for a very short period of time, but I hope it makes the point). Maybe its the same thing here ...it is relatively easy to push Russia around. It is a country that is very large in terms of land mass, and does have nuclear weapons, but has the economy of Italy and is currently economically constrained and reliant on a single (targetable) commodity. On the other hand, China has a significantly stronger economy, and squeezing it would squeeze many economies at the same time. Thus, targeting of the type of country one can get away with.
Going a bit off topic, but this is why countries like Iraq and Libya and Syria are fair game, but countries like Saudi Arabia (oil) and Pakistan (nukes) are not. Same thing here - Russia does have nukes (but is logical enough not to use them, which is why MAD worked between the USA and USSR for decades) but has a weak economy that is quite 'myopic' in terms of its reliance on a single commodity, and then you have China that is different.
If you think of it that way it is not as absurd. One doesn't hunt what one cannot kill, and right now Russia can be killed and China cannot. Unfortunately, China is thus allowed to get stronger, and when it is sufficiently strong then it will be something that even the Soviet Union at its peak (let alone Russia) could not be. A competing super power that is strong both militarily AND economically.
You can cut China down to size with monetary policy but of course this admin is never going to do that.
---I'm not a "military guy" but I'll give it a whirl.
Why do we keep poking Russia. They are not the military they once were and ISIS is wreaking havoc all over the world.
---The US keeps poking Russia because US foreign policy is based on the personal relationship between Obama and the leadership of other countries. Obama likes Erdogan. Obama likes the Iranian leadership. He does not like Putin or Netanyahu or General Sisi. Therefore he keeps poking Putin. This leaves former US allies like Egypt and Israel up for grabs and Putin is grabbing them. France is joining Russia's coalition against ISIS. Germany will join soon also.
We will go to war over Turkey? why?
---Exactly, why? If Turkey invokes Article 5 now there is only one NATO power who would respond. It could be the end of the alliance.
it seems our alliances are a little screwed up right now.
---Really? What an understatement. Obama has THROWN AWAY 70 years of carefully woven US alliances. Fasten your seat belts.
Saudi Arabia and Qatar might as well be parts of NATO, as they are protected as much as any NATO country would be. It’s absurd.
---Which poses another question. Who is arming and financing ISIS? Why?
Great analysis. But isn’t it kind of like Russia making a military treaty with Mexico or Canada? i dont know.
and where does ISIS fit into all this?
China is terrifying.
How would we feel if Mexico or Canada made a military alliance with China or Russia>
i dont care about every little country that wants to join nato. No.
I care about America.
Great post. Agreed on every point.
Our presidents handlers seem obsessed with the 1980’s and rekindling the Cold War rivalry with Russia, even though modern reality shows that hot wars are much closer than a rational policy should accept
I guess Russia is just not communist enough for these 1980’s Alinsky communists
Plus Putin refuses to open Russian culture to the poofter lobby
China does not have the ability to project militarily.
Young chinese will overcome the treacherous old guys left in power and will mellow considerably
The problems between the world and China will be economic. The fantastically large capability of the China trade engine has yet to come onstream.
Western contest with China will continue to be economic not military?
Just like those contests between England and France and Germany and the United States and Japan remained purely economic?
Nobody ever fights over money?
Very good analysis, except that I don’t believe this is true anymore: “its inclusion into NATO it means that no non-NATO country can attack it”.
NATO is an ineffective, shell of it’s former self, it did not protect Ukraine from Russia’s incursion and seizure of Crimea. After the Soviet Union fell, Ukraine gave up possession of its nukes based the the promise that NATO would protect it from another nation’s attack.
I suppose Montenegro has little choice other than to join NATO in light of Russia’s aggressions. However, they are sadly mistaken if they think NATO membership guarantees their sovereignty.
are they really in debt to the tune of 300 percent of GDP?!?!
Japan is at 200 percent.
we are rapidly catching up. what a shame
i thought he said 1980 called and want their foreign policy back.
he protects muzzies at all costs. i hate him.
This is just more evidence that Putin doesn’t believe the former Soviet slave states, who were literally raped and robed by the communists, have any right to seek their own path in the world. Pro Putin posters will blame NATO, the USA, neo-Cons, Soros, and possibly the Jews for the fact that none of the former slave states want to ever be dictated to by Moscow again. However, the fear is caused by Putin and is a result of his aggressive neo-Imperialism.
Because that has been US policy since 1992 and the Wolfowitz Doctrine. Paul Wolfowitz was the policy undersecretary and his deputy was Scooter Libby working under Cheney as SecDef in the GHW Bush years. All of those people who worked for Cheney would have key jobs in the GW Bush years. Wolfowitz would be deputy SecDef and Libby would be Cheney's chief of staff.
Clinton would use the Wolfowitz Doctrine in the Balkans and GW Bush would use it in Iraq, and it would be called the Bush Doctrine.
Notice the parts on Russia/Soviet Union.
Wiki Page on Wolfowitz Doctrine
The other part of this was/is the funding Civil Society NGOs which had begun in the 1970s when Carter funded the political opposition in Kabul which led to the Soviet invasion.
In the early 90s US AID and US NGOs in the US began funding the Civil Society NGOs in eastern Europe, Georgia, Montenegro, and the Ukraine that generated the democratic revolutions. The Maiden revolution in Ukraine was the second Orange revolution. This revolution is still underway with the recent bombing of the powerlines that cut off power to Crimea, which was probably done by the Turkish Tatars in Crimea and followed up by Turkey shooting down Putin's jet.
The Arab Spring was funded by the NGOs as was the political opposition in Moscow. McCain sent the tweet to Putin that the Arab Spring was coming to Russia. Putin cut off all the US AID funds flowing into Russia and threw Pussy Riot in jail in an attempt put down his political opposition. They are close to shutting down the several US NGOs operating in Russia including the Open Society Foundation which is partially funded by George Soros, who played a very big part in the Ukraine Orange revolution.
The US has and will continue to promote democratic and capital market reforms around the world.
The fact that China and Russia are unable to make any winning arguments to a Canada or Mexico should tell you about the side you have chosen to bed with.
Well, you had me until your last sentence there about the US promoting democracy and free markets
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