If this guy were as leftist as some maintain, the media and party establishment would be falling all over themselves to see him nominated. They don't want him anywhere near the GOP nomination because they know he can win.
As Conservatives are wont to do, I will retire to his record - What he's done is what he is - And I doubt very highly that you will try to defend him by his record. If you care to try, bring it.
His historic position is undoubtedly at least center left, and that, IMHO, is being kind. He makes for good copy, which is enough to get him much exposure - But I wonder how much of his fame is exactly by design, with all this bombast (to ridiculous heights) taking the air away from those who rightly deserve the Conservative mantle... Hoping perhaps that his tantrums blow all the steam out of the population before it has any effect on the election. I consider him to be exactly that sort of stalking horse. He is pushing every single button.
As to his determination to win, I am not sure of that at all - If he succeeds in wearing out the Conservative, and then stays in, I may be forced to cede to your position.
However, even if that is the case, and he obtains the nomination, How does he stand any better chance than Romney in the general? Nobody is paying attention right now, so he gets the benefit of the doubt - But do you really think the Christian Right is going to go to the wall for him once they find out his historic positions? What does he offer to DEFCONS? He is in exactly the same place as Romney, with about the same things to offer FICONS (which actually isn't much), and nothing to offer, or worse, opposition to, the other factions... He's got nuthin' for Conservatives.
And finally, supposing he gets elected without the Christians, Defense/foreign policy conservatives, and the libertarian/civil conservatives, how in fact shall he govern? According to his electioneering, or according to his record? I won't take that chance. I think he will be every bit the tyrant that we have now. But he's 'our' tyrant, eh?
Nah - I won't vote for that, even if Cruz would accept VP... Anymore than I would vote for McQueeg, just because he started waiving Palin around.
Because if my life long democrat sister will vote for Trump, I smell a landslide with or without your vote.
As Conservatives are wont to do, I will retire to his record - What he's done is what he is - And I doubt very highly that you will try to defend him by his record. If you care to try, bring it."
I do know there are some here (some close friendly FReepers) who genuinely worry that there's nothing "Conservative" to Trump. This is the danger with candidates that have no record in office that you can't swiftly judge them. I used to believe that there should be some prior political office experience before one becomes President, but I think in a few instances can be waived given the individual (although generally that would be towards one whom has served in a high military position, one whom has served in an executive capacity in the business world presiding over large numbers of employees, which would be comparable to a Governor, would get a pass - so that's where Trump gets the OK from me as a basic qualifier).
"His historic position is undoubtedly at least center left, and that, IMHO, is being kind. He makes for good copy, which is enough to get him much exposure - But I wonder how much of his fame is exactly by design, with all this bombast (to ridiculous heights) taking the air away from those who rightly deserve the Conservative mantle... Hoping perhaps that his tantrums blow all the steam out of the population before it has any effect on the election. I consider him to be exactly that sort of stalking horse. He is pushing every single button."
As to the issue of legit Conservatives, Cruz remains really the only one. The rest are almost non-starters to the last. I watch Cruz to see how he deals with the Trump "issue", and that is telling to me. He does not consider him to be either a threat to "the cause" or to himself (meaning that if Cruz comes up short in the race, if Trump is the nominee, he knows this is a positive development in achieving our goals). As I've said many times, I tend to take a look at those most opposed to Conservatism and their reaction to given candidates. The utter hysteria by the political establishment confirms my conclusions that if Trump was a leftist, you'd hear nary a peep from them, except to praise him.
I'll say again that Trump has already gone too far with his candidacy. He can't stuff the genie back in the bottle and go back to where he was before at this point. If he weren't serious about where he stands and the positions he has taken, there's no way he'd have gone this far. He's burned his bridges with the elites. If he does so with the people that support him now, he'll be the biggest pariah this country has ever seen. It makes no logical sense.
"As to his determination to win, I am not sure of that at all - If he succeeds in wearing out the Conservative, and then stays in, I may be forced to cede to your position.
However, even if that is the case, and he obtains the nomination, How does he stand any better chance than Romney in the general? Nobody is paying attention right now, so he gets the benefit of the doubt - But do you really think the Christian Right is going to go to the wall for him once they find out his historic positions? What does he offer to DEFCONS? He is in exactly the same place as Romney, with about the same things to offer FICONS (which actually isn't much), and nothing to offer, or worse, opposition to, the other factions... He's got nuthin' for Conservatives."
Because he motivates not only many in the Conservative base, but also those outside of it in a way we haven't seen since Reagan. When you look at the fact a recent poll showed him getting 25% of the Black vote (which the Democrats cannot afford to bleed off that much), it shows this is a candidate with wider appeal beyond the usual cast of characters and could begin to stage a generational realignment. Trump is serious about going after the votes of non-traditional Republicans, and is showing legitimacy in being able to do just that (and even better, not by pandering, which got us precisely nowhere).
It also isn't a matter of if he'll come in on a Conservative platform on government spending, he'll simply HAVE to be, since we'll be at or above $20 trillion in debt (not even counting unfunded liabilities that run into over a hundred billion, if not hundreds). He knows that is unsustainable without an economic crash of biblical proportions (the ultimate end of Zero's Cloward-Piven strategy). So right there he's got something. He's also intent on bringing back jobs from overseas. I take him at his word. I won't use the word "trust", since anyone who trusts someone running for any office is a fool, only that I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. That's really all you can do as a voter.
"And finally, supposing he gets elected without the Christians, Defense/foreign policy conservatives, and the libertarian/civil conservatives, how in fact shall he govern? According to his electioneering, or according to his record? I won't take that chance. I think he will be every bit the tyrant that we have now. But he's 'our' tyrant, eh?"
Well, if he doesn't get their vote, he can't be nominated given the rest of the field, let alone win a general election. Frankly, too, a lot of us are sick and tired of gutless weasels that the GOP runs and elects time and time again. As soon as the elites and the leftist media says "Boo !" they wet their underpants and go hide in the corner. He's the first grown-up candidate in over 3 decades that tells the media and the elites what they can go do with themselves and makes them wet their underpants and cower in the corner. That the (Conservative) GOP ever reached the point that they would be cowered for being right by the left (whom have destroyed this country over countless decades) in the first place is appalling. The proper response to the thugs of the left is to treat them like bullies and knock their soft teeth down their whiny throats (as ex-Sen. George Allen once said, before he forgot his own mantra). I want a strong leader, we NEED a strong leader. We've gone decades without a real one, and it has dovetailed with our rapid cultural decline and diminishment amongst the rest of the world.
"Nah - I won't vote for that, even if Cruz would accept VP... Anymore than I would vote for McQueeg, just because he started waiving Palin around."
The only reason I could stomach voting for that... thing... in 2008 was with the fervent hope that he would keel over from the stress of the job. I've already repudiated that vote since I couldn't believe he'd still be around in almost 2016. Of course, any discussion of Trump is academic, pro or con, until we absolutely see him in action beginning in January 2017. If he is as bad as you say, you will have been right. If he is what I think he has the potential to be, we could be on the cusp of electing a truly great individual to the Presidency again, someone whom can begin to restore what's been lost. I mean, if he accomplishes one thing, that being deportation of illegals, that will make him the best President in my lifetime. Even Reagan botched that one with amnesty, which was arguably his worst action as President, since that paved the way for the millions of invaders since thinking they could take advantage of us.