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To: Resettozero

The Constitution is clear in it’s language.

The 14th amendment starts with this sentence.

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.”

Now, the problem is that it does not matter to this language if a person is legally or illegally in the country.

It. Does. Not. Matter.

The language gives no other instruction. If an ‘anchor baby’ is

1) born... in the United States

and

2) subject to the jurisdiction thereof

they are, by virtue of the Constitution, a citizen at birth of the United States.

The second point confuses people. They think that if someone is here illegally, they aren’t subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but that isn’t true. Illegal aliens are under the jurisdiction of the United States. They can be arrested and charged with crimes by courts appointed by the United States.

So what does the second point refer to? People who have diplomatic immunity are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, i.e. they cannot be charged with a crime nor stand trial under a court appointed by the United States. Because they are not under the jurisdiction of the United States, any child born to them is NOT a citizen of the United States, even when born here.

Now, I would 100% support an amendment to the Constitution that declared that anybody born to a mother who did not have legal right of permanent residency must be naturalized to become a citizen of the United States, but the way the Constitution reads now, an illegal alien who gives birth in the United States, gives birth to a United States citizen.


48 posted on 08/16/2015 9:49:22 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius (www.wilsonharpbooks.com - Sign up for my new release e-mail and get my first novel for free)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
You sloughed over this part of the 14th:

...are CITIZENS of the United States AND of the state wherein they reside.

Lots of people prefer your interpretation, though, which makes the Trump/Sessions plan unfeasible in a short period of time...my remaining lifetime.
59 posted on 08/16/2015 9:53:40 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
So what does the second point refer to? People who have diplomatic immunity are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States

From what I've been seeing...neither are illegal aliens. Can't be stopped at the border, released from our prisons to commit more crimes.

96 posted on 08/16/2015 10:09:04 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republican Freed the Slaves" month.)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

The baby is. The parents are not.

Deport the parents.
Allow them zero visitation ever. Don’t even keep information for the child to learn who their criminal parents were.
If they wish (as their child’s guardian) to take the child with them when they are deported make that act an automatic forfeiture of the child’s citizenship.

This is the same solution conservatives have been advocating at least since I became involved in immigration reform activism during the Carter presidency.

And fix immigration processing.

In the seventies it often took up to eight years to get citizenship processed for a spouse an American married overseas. Today it still does despite computerization. This is why I first got involved in immigration as a political issue.


102 posted on 08/16/2015 10:11:07 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
14th Amendment, Section 5 [of 5]:

The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

There is an argument that Section 1, from which you quoted, had its original intent misinterpreted when SCOTUS ruled on citizenship in the late 1800s and that the current interpretation of birthright citizenship was NOT intended. And as such, that Congress can point to section 5 and end it by simple legislation; stating it, not SCOTUS, has the applicable power here. At worst you get a confrontation between what the Framers thought of the most vs. the least powerful branches of the Federal Government. The only problem is a century worth of brain washing the populace on the incorrect SCOTUS precedent. Defeating that brain washing will take all the heavy lifting Trump can provide.

105 posted on 08/16/2015 10:13:16 AM PDT by JohnBovenmyer (Obama been Liberal. Hope Change)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

The first, second and other amendments have been twisted and ‘re-interpreted, with judges using what they think the framers had in mind at the time. I believe what they had in mind here was the children of slaves, not millions of illegal aliens rushing across our border to have babies and collect welfare.


116 posted on 08/16/2015 10:19:17 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius; norton

“The language gives no other instruction. If an ‘anchor baby; is
1) born... in the United States
and
2) subject to the jurisdiction thereof
they are, by virtue of the Constitution, a citizen at birth of the United States.
The second point confuses people. They think that if someone is here illegally, they aren’t subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but that isn’t true. Illegal aliens are under the jurisdiction of the United States. They can be arrested and charged with crimes by courts appointed by the United States.”

People born to foreigners in the US follow the citizenship of their parents, as do children born out of the US to US Citizens. Mexican children born in the US to Mexican citizen(s) are citizens of Mexico. US children born in Mexico to one or more US citizens are US citizens.

Can citizens of other countries be charged with Treason against the US? Obviously, the “courts” have decided otherwise I guess, but I maintain that if you can’t be charged with treason, you’re not “under the jurisdiction” of the Unites States of America.


132 posted on 08/16/2015 10:26:37 AM PDT by Larry - Moe and Curly (Loose lips sink ships.)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

2) subject to the jurisdiction thereof
_____________________________________

the anchor baby born in America of illegal alien parents is not “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” because the parents aren’t..

the parents refuse to be “subject to the jurisdiction” or they would have honored our laws and came here legally..

the fact that they are intentionally breaking our laws by their presence within our borders denies hem the right to claim they are “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” and their anchor baby should be an American citizen...


134 posted on 08/16/2015 10:28:33 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
A child born in United States from an illegal immigrant criminal can not be legal.

NO OTHER COUNTRY IS SO STUPID AS UNITED STATES TO ALLOW ANCHOR BABIES. If necessary, Amendments to constitution can be done, but I hope that will not be necessary and self preservation will prevail. Why does the country want to commit suicide?

146 posted on 08/16/2015 10:36:03 AM PDT by entropy12 (You always vote for the rich donors of candidates, not the candidate himself. Except Trump.)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

.
>> “but the way the Constitution reads now, an illegal alien who gives birth in the United States, gives birth to a United States citizen.” <<

.
That is totally, stupendously false.

Shame on you for deliberately deceiving the low-information fools.
.


182 posted on 08/16/2015 10:55:35 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

You’re just spewing lies and anti-American garbage. All of these illegal aliens getting “matricula” ID cards from the Mexican consulate are under the jurisdiction of Mexico.


282 posted on 08/16/2015 11:55:41 AM PDT by Plummz (pro-constitution, anti-corruption)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

““All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, “

My interpretation is that if the parents are not citizens they are subject to the jurisdiction elsewhere - and so is their offspring.


419 posted on 08/16/2015 3:46:55 PM PDT by Hardens Hollow (Couldn't find Galt's Gulch, so created our own Harden's Hollow to quit paying the fascist beast.)
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