Posted on 07/20/2015 6:13:58 AM PDT by Hostage
Towards the end of the video where John McCain's betrayals are exposed By Vietnam Vets And POWs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hr37eE0nO8&feature=youtu.be
are found the remarks of former Congressman Dornan's which are accurate and highly plausible but are missing a vital part that deconstructs John McCain's character and the myth about his 'heroism'.
Here's the context with reference in italics to the Hanoi Hilton's POW Commanding Officer Admiral James Stockdale in his own words:
Admiral (then a USN Captain) Stockdale and all other POWs inside the Hanoi Hilton confirmed the only way to come home early was if Admiral Stockdale granted permission; there was no other way around it. There were very few early releasees. One was a Seaman Apprentice named Douglas Hegdahl III who had spent night and day memorizing the names of 256 aviators into a rhyme and jingle. He was ordered to be an early release because he had those names to pass on to his debriefer when he got home.
McCain was never ordered to early release although the enemy offered it to him. He refused because of the standing order given by his POW Commanding Officer James Stockdale. Many have construed this refusal as of his own volition. He did obey the order and the consequence of not obeying the order was well-described by Congressman Dornan.
From Admiral Stockdale's book p.254:
There was little concern in any American's mind about the possibility of the Vietnamese throwing anybody out to defame him; we now knew the Vietnamese well enough to be sure that any early releasee would have to buy his way out by groveling on his knees before the Communists, bad-mouthing America. I gave their new release program a name: FRP -- the "Fink Release Program," and that was the way it was to be known. I also issued an order that started on its way to the other cell blocks of Las Vegas and with subsequent movers to the camps elsewhere in the city and outside it: "No early release; we all go home together".
John McCain's betrayals Exposed By Vietnam Vets And POWs:
> “Despite having NO evidence whatsoever to justify your claim, you stated that there is “no doubt” that McCain was “merely” following orders when he refused early release.”
BS. The evidence is in Admiral Stockdale’s own words.
“Love the false bravado - it’s not heroism if your doing your duty GTFOH”
Agree... McCain resisted in the face of real torture. How many of us would be able to continue fighting back after having our arms pulled out of joint? I don’t agree with McCain politically but I respect him as a man (I am told he can’t put on a coat without help). His father was CINCPAC and he was singled out for special attention. He fought back in Boat School Boy fashion and kept faith with his comrades.
Trump is out of line and full of BS. He has no scars and without them he has no creditability.
Not being a coward does not automatically mean one is a hero.
The word ‘hero’ has a meaning. When its meaning is so broadly applied, it loses its true meaning.
My son thinks I am his ‘hero’. No I am not, I am merely a responsible father.
Were you there?
I certainly wasn’t.
If he was THAT much of a traitor they would have swift boated him during the election. I know it was eight years ago, but I don’t recall the opposition beating him up too much over that.
Seriously, I think the guy is a douche. I never liked him. And I find it hard to act as though I am defending him.
My point is context. In the context of his situation, I don’t know if I would deem him a hero. I think that term is tossed about too much.
What got me angry at Trump was the comment about “I like people who did not get captured.” That is the kind of off the cuff, a-hole remark that preppy boys who’ve never been in a fight like to make.
If Trump had ever put himself near the position where he might have been captured he might understand a little better that sometimes it is not avoidable.
But after four deferments and a bone spur on his foot...I guess he’s faced enough to be able to judge.
THAT is why I am angry at Trump. I am not necessarily defending McCain beyond the fact that he put himself in harm’s way and Trump went to keggers.
The problem with McCain is that he made a political career out of being a POW. Like the Kennedys waving the
“Bloody Shirt”.
McLame and Kerry,
Two Viet Nam, “heros”?
Maybe not.
Hostage has done the work
Please help spread the message
Time for McCain to go the way of Dan Rather and resign
He has misrepresented with the help of the media,
The entire “chose to stay with fellow POW” Just yesterday there were at least half dozen on the news who used that meme to justify his heroism. At the least McCane has never corrected them.
I’ve know several POW and true heroes whose actions were unknown until their obituary They didn’t use their heroism to draw attention or bring glory to self. It wasnt until shortly before his death that my own father shared his medals and that was so he could explain that he wasnt REALLY a hero. He certainly did his part and is to me.
avoiding service with 5 deferments.
_________________________________________
Willard got student deferments plus deferments for his religion..
During Nam he spent 2 1/2 years in France living in a mansion and driving a top-of-the-line Citroen..
Willard was at least a TWO TIME draft dodger and yet you had no qualms about voting for him in 2012...
McInsane loses his POW status because he prevented the US from going back to get the other POWs from Vietnam as he campaigned to give them Most Favored Nation status. He sold out his fellow POWs for money. He did that 15 years after he was all snug and safe in the US as a Senator.
Where can we find these 31 videos, the DNC ought to have them. I am interested to know which POWs claim that he was never tortued. I do know for an actual fact that McCain never actually really went to Vietnam. All of that stuff was filmed on a Hollywood sound stage, produced by Ronald Reagan in between his episodes of Death Valley Days.
Is that why he had the records classified. Both he and Kerry headed the committee. Families of other POW begged them to make material public. Instead he decided there were none left and closes all attempts to find their loved ones. Read or listen to some of their comments
The media chose to ignore their pleas. McCain and Kerry were heroes you know /s
“Not being a coward does not automatically mean one is a hero.”
Flying combat missions behind enemy lines qualifies as heroism in my book. Doing so knowing that being shot down will result in either death or torture (or both) means you are risking your life and accepting the possibility of severe torment for your country. It goes well beyond “not being a coward”.
“Why didn’t McCain leave when he could so that he could pass on to the US anything he might have learnt about the enemies movements, treatment of POWs etc and who was in there with him ???”
He didn’t know anything about troop movements. We already knew about the treatment of prisoners. And we had a pretty good idea of who was there - better than McCain.
You confuse the words ‘bravery’ and ‘duty’ with the word ‘heroism’. That is the point.
You also allow your ‘admiration’ to drift into ‘hero worship’ thereby diminishing the meaning of the word ‘hero’.
Again from post #19 from my own experience as a young man with errors in applying meanings of words as you have shown here:
“The men who landed on Normandy Beach (and I knew some in my lifetime) refused to allow themselves to be called heroes when in their own words they were following orders.”
“One of them I talked to 30 years ago, I asked “what were you all thinking when you were in the landing craft ready to run onto the beach?” His response was “we had accepted we were already dead”.”
“In response to my remark to him that he and the others onboard with him were heroes he responded “no, we were following orders, nothing more”.”
Mc Cain with the help of Kerry had them classified. Jane Fonda mentioned them at one point. Apparently she recognized McCain as the admiral’s son
Am looking at a post written by active duty marine. He gives more detail
You may say the men who attacked at D-Day were not heroes - but they are in MY book! My uncle in the Merchant Marine, who had 3 ships torpedoed out from under him, was a hero in my book. My Dad, who came back once from a mission in WW@ with his plane riddled with bullets and scorch marks on the front of the plane (from flying thru burning wreckage), was a hero.
Certainly more so than someone who spent the same time going to college in the USA...
HERO: “a man distinguished by exceptional courage, nobility, fortitude, etc”
Someone who risks their life for their country, because they believe it is their duty, distinguishes themselves “by exceptional courage, nobility, fortitude” - particularly when compared to those who sat out the war.
> “You may say the men who attacked at D-Day were not heroes - but they are in MY book!”
You don’t read very carefully do you?
I never said they were not heroes; they said it. I said they were heroes and they corrected me.
What exactly was his service record outside of captivity? He flew 23 millions before he was captured
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