Waco police seeking to bar information about Texas biker shooting

Yahoo News ^ | June 4, 2015 | Jason Sickles

[don-o]

As questions remain unanswered about the last month’s deadly biker rampage in Waco, Texas, police there are trying to clamp down on public information about the case.

The move as scrutiny intensifies over the Waco Police Department’s handling of the sensational shootout that killed nine bikers, injured 18 and saw an unprecedented 175 people arrested and charged with engaging in organized crime.

By law, crime and arrest reports containing basic data — information such as a detailed description of the offense and the name and a description of the victim — have to be provided.

While some details about the dead, including identities, have trickled out, officials have been slow to provide information through documented reports as required by Texas Public Records Act.

Documents that have been released to Yahoo News appear to hap-hazardously redacted. Even though required by law, the names of arresting officers are omitted. But the identities, addresses and other contact information of suspect’s next-of-kin are prevalent.

snip

Still unknown is where each victim was killed and by whom. Officers have acknowledged firing on armed bikers, but it is not clear how many of the dead were shot by gang members and how many were shot by officers.

Yahoo News submitted a written request on May 19 for reports related to the nine people who were shot and killed at the Twin Peaks restaurant.

On Wednesday, the Waco City Attorney’s office asked the Texas Attorney General for permission to withhold the records from Yahoo News and other media outlets that have made similar requests.

[gaijin]

The cops seized 1000 weapons.

Uh-huh.

SURE they did.

Sure.

[sport]

I believed that it started at a thousand, maybe a little over a thousand. Then the story got to, “If you won’t believe that lie, will you believe this lie?” With each subsequent lie, the weapon count became smaller.

[MortMan]

I doubt either boredom or sport are the reasons. When the government tries to hide information, it strikes me that they have information they need to hide - much like when a 5 year old doesn’t want to answer a question, they usually know you won’t like the answer.

I’m not making a judgment on whether or not it was a legitimate operation or not. I am merely noting that not providing legally required information (such as arresting officers names) while providing excess information on the other side (contact info for defendants and/or deceased) doesn’t strike me as a legitimate method of handling the aftermath of the operation - and may (as in “could”) portend that the operation itself is on shaky ground.

Just my $.02.

[don-o]

It seems that most of the dead bikers were killed by the police. Was this an old fashioned Texas turkey shoot?

I pray to God that is NOT what happened. But, 19 days out, I am not seeing anything to eliminate that as a plausible explanation.

[sport]

It is akin to being pregnant. It is either is or is not. If it is legitimate, they provide information to all media outlets interested, give interviews, show court appearances, etc. If illegitimate , there are only two things they can do, undo it, which is impossible or cover up and muddy the water.

[Ace the Biker]

It’s too late to pray for what happened, it has happened and the only logical explanation for the total obfuscation, and foot dragging by the authorities is that the cops opened fire on a crowd of people.

It was so obvious to them that they immediately found a way to lock up every possible witness to their wrongful actions and kept them locked up with outrageously high bail.

This is so UN-American that at this point I can imagine they are just following the absolute unlawfulness of our current commander in chief. What an example he has set.

I have finally found something good about being in my Seventies, I got to live most of my life in a fair minded decent county and will probably be dead before it is completely destroyed. I can only grieve for my children and grandchildren.

[mac_truck]

You’re wrong...and maybe you should actually read the TPRA before pontificating about what is required from it.

[Svartalfiar]

I believed that it started at a thousand, maybe a little over a thousand. Then the story got to, “If you won’t believe that lie, will you believe this lie?” With each subsequent lie, the weapon count became smaller.

Last I heard, the count was down to 280 weapons or so. And that number includes small knives (Texas carry is up to 5 1/2"), weapons in vehicles (you can legally have anything in your vehicle), as well as handguns (even though many of the bikers have CHLs and no criminal record, obviously). Oh, and I think one guy got nailed for a weapon known as a nail clipper.

How many of those weapons were 'illegally' carried? So far the official confirmed number is... Zero.

[sport]

My question would be, how many of them were planted?

[Svartalfiar]

No, you're wrong. If you read the last line in the article, it states that they aren't going to the AG for guidance, they are asking permission (an exemption) to not do what the law requires.

On Wednesday, the Waco City Attorney’s office asked the Texas Attorney General for permission to withhold the records from Yahoo News and other media outlets that have made similar requests.

[don-o]

Show me where I am wrong, please. I taking the Yahoo story at face value. I admit that.

I will see what I can find about the Act. And I will look for your take on how Waco PD is not in violation.

[don-o]

http://www.txstate.edu/about/open_records_act.html

B. Information that may be withheld due to an exception

By the tenth (10th) business day after a governmental body receives your written request, a governmental body must:
1. request an Attorney General opinion and state which exceptions apply;
2. notify the requestor of the referral to the Attorney General; and
3. notify third parties if the request involves their proprietary information.
Failure to request an Attorney General opinion and notify the requestor within 10 business days will result in a presumption that the information is open unless there is a compelling reason to withhold it.

---

Waco did not comply with the ten day requirement.

[Cboldt]

The city has no intention of releasing the requested records. In it's letter to Mr. Sickles (of Yahoo News), it says, "If the Attorney General decides that such records must be released, the City will then either release the records or pursue other options available through the Public Information Act."

In its letter to the AG, the city asserts that the reason for withholding officer names is the threat of retaliation.

[Cboldt]

-- Waco did not comply with the ten day requirement. --

The only effect of that is to create a presumption, and I would wager that the presence of a presumption is insignificant in practice. Both the state and the city have the same interest here, and both will assert "compelling reason" to delay making the information public.

[Svartalfiar]

I'll admit I don't know anything about the legalities of the Act, I'm just going off the wording from the article. But as I said above:

If you read the last line in the article, it states that they aren't going to the AG for guidance, they are asking permission (an exemption) to not do what the law requires.

On Wednesday, the Waco City Attorney’s office asked the Texas Attorney General for permission to withhold the records from Yahoo News and other media outlets that have made similar requests.

If they were in the clear, they wouldn't need to ask the AG to come up with a way they could withhold the information, they would just tell the news that they don't have to give it out, and only go to the AG if Yahoo/others complained. The fact that they are doing this, and the wording given, imply that they are trying to get around the requirements of the law.

I don't know if you read the article or just the excerpt, but they have the Waco letter posted, and it states they are trying to have the AG give them the ok to withhold. And, if the AG disagrees, they'll release them unless they can find another way within the law to not disclose.

Further, of the 19 pages they did release, they dealt with some dispatch logs, and the rest irrelevant to the shooting, just a couple random arrest logs. Partially redacted as well. Waco also waited until the last day possible to release those, and has, apparently, been just playing games trying to delay and confuse as much as possible.

[don-o]

TEX GV. CODE ANN. § 552.108 : Texas Statutes - Section 552.108: EXCEPTION: CERTAIN LAW ENFORCEMENT, CORRECTIONS, AND PROSECUTORIAL INFORMATION - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/GV/5/A/552/C/552.108#sthash.KsIjgbrQ.dpuf

a) Information held by a law enforcement agency or prosecutor that deals with the detection, investigation, or prosecution of crime is excepted from the requirements of Section 552.021 if:

(1) release of the information would interfere with the detection, investigation, or prosecution of crime;

(2) it is information that deals with the detection, investigation, or prosecution of crime only in relation to an investigation that did not result in conviction or deferred adjudication;

(3) it is information relating to a threat against a peace officer or detention officer collected or disseminated under Section 411.048; or

(4) it is information that:

(A) is prepared by an attorney representing the state in anticipation of or in the course of preparing for criminal litigation; or

(B) reflects the mental impressions or legal reasoning of an attorney representing the state.

(b) An internal record or notation of a law enforcement agency or prosecutor that is maintained for internal use in matters relating to law enforcement or prosecution is excepted from the requirements of Section 552.021 if:

(1) release of the internal record or notation would interfere with law enforcement or prosecution;

(2) the internal record or notation relates to law enforcement only in relation to an investigation that did not result in conviction or deferred adjudication; or

(3) the internal record or notation:

(A) is prepared by an attorney representing the state in anticipation of or in the course of preparing for criminal litigation; or

(B) reflects the mental impressions or legal reasoning of an attorney representing the state.

(c) This section does not except from the requirements of Section 552.021 information that is basic information about an arrested person, an arrest, or a crime.
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/GV/5/A/552/C/552.108#sthash.KsIjgbrQ.dpuf

[MinuteGal]

Biased reporting?.....first line of the Yahoo News article preceding this thread....."As questions remain unanswered about last month's deadly biker rampage....."

MY unanswered question....."Just exactly WHO was on the deadly rampage>"

Leni

[mabarker1]

I have no doubt that a fairly large percentage of those biker were pretty bad guys

And you base this on what ? (Genius at Large)

[don-o]

I do not see the letter to the AG from the City.

The time frame (and 10 day window) is unclear. Article states May 19 as request date. City response is June 3. I count that as 16 days.

If they were in the clear, they wouldn't need to ask the AG to come up with a way they could withhold the information

Yes, Yes Yes! A thousand times (make that a million times) YES!

The stone wall is beginning to attract some MSM notice. I posted an article from The Atlantic.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3296775/posts

[Cboldt]

Letter from Waco to State AG, at scribd, linked from the Yahoo News piece.