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Why Religious Liberty Arguments Aren’t Working
Crisis Magazine ^ | April 16, 2015 | Jennifer Roback Morse

Posted on 04/17/2015 1:44:35 PM PDT by Petrosius

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To: HiTech RedNeck

.
I don’t disagree with your assertion, but I was simply boiling it down to the effective fact WRT action in court.

That is the proximate locus of failure of the argument.

As to the general public, people are at least 2:1 opposed to the destruction of marriage, even in liberal states.
.


21 posted on 04/17/2015 3:42:44 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Yes. When you have unjust laws, it is a matter of time before the normalization of vice in the populace and worldview becomes evil and vulgar (like the Weimar Republic did, which created the Nazi movement and 90% of irrational Germans who simply loved Hitler).

The problem is:

1)—There is no education of children, just indoctrination into tribalism (Marxism)-—they are fed vice and stupidity 24/7. Words matter and when the press allows no debate of ideas (political correctness/Cultural Marxism) there is no Truth/God allowed in the public square and the minds of children in the culture.

Even the Catholic schools destroyed their curricula to promote ignorance and stupidity and no possibility of abstract, profound thinking. Everything is to distract them from God/Truth/Virtue (Excellence). Education prior to John Dewey gave the tools (Classical Education) which gave children the Reason and Logic so they could become critical thinkers-—now schools destroy Reason and Logic and Virtue intentionally. Truth/Facts create cognitive dissonance in the brainwashed adults—most people today.

2) The control of language and Words by the Leftists: He who controls the Words, will control the Worldview. (Wittgenstein) The Left controls the information/all curricula in schools and all MSM since early 1900s. When all you hear is lies and misinformation, there is no possibility of “thinking”.

(The Left put “homosexual” in front of the word marriage over 30 years ago and made something totally absurd and immoral and irrational, into something”Good” although it is in opposition to the “...Laws of Nature and nature’s God” (the Constitution and our Ethics system (Justice System)). Homosexual unions deny children their biological parent which is their Natural Right from God-—and there is no Natural Right to sodomy.

We need to gain the minds of our children and the public square again.....until then—the culture will rot any children exposed to their filth and lies and godless worldview where man is just a worthless animal to be herded and culled and killed—individual God-Given Rights are non-existant..


22 posted on 04/17/2015 4:06:04 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Ah, a surrender monkey treatise. How quaint.


23 posted on 04/17/2015 4:11:40 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: sergeantdave

?!?!?


24 posted on 04/17/2015 4:34:05 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

“?!?!?”

I’m also confused.

?!?!?

Ya wanna go get a beer?


25 posted on 04/17/2015 5:12:24 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: MeganC
"The 4th reason that religious liberty arguments fail is that too many religious people aren’t really all that religious and they don’t distinguish themselves from non-believers."

Amen.

This is called a "Christian nation", mostly because we have so many people who attend church every Sunday.

But if you count up the truly "Christian" among us, it's really a small number of people.

And yes, this is sad and pathetic.

Look at how many "good Catholics" support gay marriage and abortion.

Exhibit B: The Episcopal church which thinks that "environmental justice" is WAY more important than say, preaching the teachings of Christ.

Taking a long shower= the unpardonable sin.

Taking an unborn human life= "we've got to keep up with the times".

Now here's my life-long partner. We're getting married this week.

If you judge that as "immoral", you're a bad man who needs to be sent away.

26 posted on 04/17/2015 5:28:23 PM PDT by boop (Hey, stoop, that's got gears. It ain't no Ford.)
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To: MeganC
"The 4th reason that religious liberty arguments fail is that too many religious people aren’t really all that religious and they don’t distinguish themselves from non-believers."

Amen.

This is called a "Christian nation", mostly because we have so many people who attend church every Sunday.

But if you count up the truly "Christian" among us, it's really a small number of people.

And yes, this is sad and pathetic.

Look at how many "good Catholics" support gay marriage and abortion.

Exhibit B: The Episcopal church which thinks that "environmental justice" is WAY more important than say, preaching the teachings of Christ.

Taking a long shower= the unpardonable sin.

Taking an unborn human life= "we've got to keep up with the times".

Now here's my life-long partner. We're getting married this week.

If you judge that as "immoral", you're a hypocrite.

27 posted on 04/17/2015 5:35:04 PM PDT by boop (Hey, stoop, that's got gears. It ain't no Ford.)
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To: boop

Sorry for double post!


28 posted on 04/17/2015 5:35:22 PM PDT by boop (Hey, stoop, that's got gears. It ain't no Ford.)
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To: sergeantdave

Wrong post reply? I don’t know why my post would merit that response.


29 posted on 04/17/2015 6:08:09 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Petrosius

The confusion comes from not differentiating between marriage, a union based on pledged love and personal commitment before God, and thus a religious event - and civil union, a government status that enables shared administrative representation.

Separate the two and it all becomes clear. Marriage should not be reachable by the government because its love and religious qualities are outside the evaluative powers of government by definition.

Marriage should also not be termed alone, but in reference to the spiritual tradition, religion or church from which it is derived in each case. This is true anyway - religions don’t generally accept marriages outside of their own tradition.

Then, as a separate event, people should have to file a separate petition for civil union with the government that is - never - called “marriage.” And to prove it, marriage should not be a prerequisite for civil union. The government deals in contacts, so a civil union is a contract between two (or more) people and the government - but it is not a marriage.

The bottom line is that if you think the government solemnizes marriage, then you equate government with God - and that is the definition of communism.

Linking marriage only with its religious source is the solution to this dilemma. If your religion doesn’t perform gay marriage, then it should be irrelevant to you if some other religion does. And if government gets out of the marriage business and only administrates civil unions, then it has no way to have any effect on anyone’s marriage.

Problem solved.


30 posted on 04/17/2015 6:16:27 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

“I don’t know why my post would merit that response.”

Exactly. I don’t know why either.


31 posted on 04/17/2015 6:31:55 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: Secret Agent Man

“I don’t know why my post would merit that response.”

I think I get it. My post was wrongly directed to you. Sorry. Ignore everything I posted previously.


32 posted on 04/17/2015 6:41:48 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: sergeantdave

:) Good, I was hoping that was what it was.


33 posted on 04/17/2015 6:51:08 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: CitizenUSA

You are the most right.


34 posted on 04/17/2015 6:51:22 PM PDT by right way right
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To: Petrosius

I prefer the end argument...

.45 acp


35 posted on 04/17/2015 6:52:29 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Talisker

Civil unions do not solve the problem. In a free society I should not be forced to recognize or give benefits to any non-marital union. Furthermore, I should be able to recognize and freely give benefits to marriage that are not open to others. Nor should the state recognize these unnatural unions and give them the sanction of society.


36 posted on 04/17/2015 6:59:32 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
>>We need a different strategy: argue against
>>the Sexual Revolution because it has hurt people.

"People" are nothing but an obstacle in the way of Transhumanist/Postgenderists achieving their inhumane goals.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Transhumanism+Postgenderism

 



37 posted on 04/17/2015 9:12:06 PM PDT by HLPhat (This space is intentionaly blank.)
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To: Petrosius

>>In a free society I should not be forced
>>to recognize or give benefits to any non-marital union.

“To compel a man to furnish funds [or bake cakes] for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”
-—Thomas Jefferson


38 posted on 04/17/2015 9:18:17 PM PDT by HLPhat (This space is intentionaly blank.)
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To: Cold Heat

+1


39 posted on 04/18/2015 5:44:34 PM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Petrosius
The uproar over the Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act demonstrates that religious liberty arguments don’t work anymore.

The argument is a constitutionally protected right argument against a "whatever we feel like" human "right". The argument is correct, but the presentation is bass ackwards.

40 posted on 04/18/2015 5:52:46 PM PDT by MortMan (All those in favor of gun control raise both hands!)
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