[agere_contra]

Ok, I tried to give you an out.

I thought you might have been a decent guy who stumbled onto the wrong side of a controversy, so I made it easy. I gave you an innocous, mutually-agreeable point to fade out on.

But now you’re telling the thread that accused people are guilty and must prove their innocence.

[Robert DeLong]

I never said that, I said the reality is you are guilty until a jury finds you innocent (once you get embroiled in the system). I also said why it has never been the case that you are innocent until proven guilty, because if you are innocent until proven guilty why do you have to provide bail to get out of jail before your trial. Why would an innocent person have to provide monies he/she may not possess at the time of arrest?

I thought you might have been a decent guy who stumbled onto the wrong side of a controversy

There you go again, proclaiming you are correct and I am wrong. Let me tell you so you no longer have to think, I am a decent guy. While I have no problem with stating that I may indeed be on the wrong side of this controversy, that would be impossible for you to admit.

BTW. I do not need your help as I am an old man who does not need saving by you. That's what my belief in Christ is for and he is the only savior I need.