Posted on 11/03/2014 9:13:54 AM PST by redinIllinois
good article by Neal Boortz
http://www.wsbradio.com/weblogs/nealz-nuze/2014/oct/29/michelle-nunn-and-fairtax/
http://fairtax.org/cosponsors/
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:s00122:@@@P
THE FAIR TAX WOULD BE THE BIGGEST TRANSFER OF POWER FROM DC BACK TO THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY'S HISTORY
A flat tax is still an income tax, and would leave the IRS in place.
It punishes productivity, and fails to capture any revenue from the illegal aliens and illegal activities like drugs and prostitution because most of them don't report their income, but they buy stuff, so with the Fair Tax, they would start paying a share.
The IRS tried to take out the Tea Party, it would be sweet vengeance for the Tea Party to take out the IRS.
The IRS terrorizes Americans with the threat and expense of an audit.
And now we are supposed to trust this monstrous agency with our lives and health?
Say no to terrorism - abolish the IRS.
Every discussion should point out that now is the time for the Fair Tax!!
I would have to reconsider voting for Cruz in the primary then, he didn’t think this one through!
lol
The IRS has become a thug, left wing unionized bunch of criminals. Abolish the IRS!
“It’s about a union: the National Treasury Employees Union. The NTEU. A left-wing union representing 150,000 employees in 31 separate government agencies, including the IRS. A union that not only endorsed President Obama for election and re-election, but a union whose current president, Colleen Kelly, was a 14-year IRS agent and now is both union president and Obama administration appointee”
Good--then maybe they will get off their lazy a** and make something of themselves and stop relying on others to take care of them. Ultimately the current tax code is strictly a political tool to hurt the productive and subsidize the vote of the deadbeats and welfare rats who actually create the demand and expense of most government services/public pensions. The fairest way would be to make each person pay for the government services they use, but next fairest would be a straight head tax. The fair tax (sales tax) is not perfect, but it makes it much harder to buy votes.
I totally agree with Sen Cruz... the Fair tax eliminates the onerous IRS which has been shown to be as corrupt an agency of the Federal Government as you can get. The Fair Tax eliminates the underground economy that for all too long have paid no taxes, it does away with tax laws that are incomprehensible by the average person, and further does away with the need for reporting income to the government (which has no real right to know how much anyone makes anyway!!)
The Fair Tax also takes away the ability of the crooks in congress to engage in social engineering by using the tax code !
I agree that the prebate is an unworkable situation, but they could exempt certain items like food, housing, medication from being taxed as states currently are doing. Certainly no one can think a “Flat Tax” would stay flat for very long given the propensity of Congress to use tax code to pick winners and losers.
I am not dumb enough to believe Congress will ever pass either the Fair or Flat tax however!
For those unwilling to do research and click the link:
SUMMARY AS OF:
1/23/2013—Introduced.
Fair Tax Act of 2013 - Repeals the income tax, employment tax, and estate and gift tax. Redesignates the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 as the Internal Revenue Code of 2013.
Imposes a national sales tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services. Sets the sales tax rate at 23% in 2015, with adjustments to the rate in subsequent years. Allows exemptions from the tax for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes, and for state government functions.
Sets forth rules relating to: (1) the collection and remittance of the sales tax, and (2) credits and refunds. Allows a monthly sales tax rebate for families meeting certain size and income requirements.
Grants states the primary authority for the collection of sales tax revenues and the remittance of such revenues to the Treasury. Sets forth administrative provisions relating to: (1) the filing of monthly reports and payments of tax; (2) accounting methods; (3) registration of sellers of goods and services responsible for reporting sales; (4) penalties for noncompliance; and (5) collections, appeals, and taxpayer rights.
Directs the Secretary of the Treasury to allocate sales tax revenues among: (1) the general revenue, (2) the old-age and survivors insurance trust fund, (3) the disability insurance trust fund, (4) the hospital insurance trust fund, and (5) the federal supplementary medical insurance trust fund.
Prohibits the funding of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) after FY2017. Establishes in the Department of the Treasury: (1) an Excise Tax Bureau to administer excise taxes not administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF); and (2) a Sales Tax Bureau to administer the national sales tax.
Terminates the sales tax imposed by this Act if the Sixteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (authorizing an income tax) is not repealed within seven years after the enactment of this Act.
My main objection to this is the following provision:
“Allows a monthly sales tax rebate for families meeting certain size and income requirements.”
It would be less expensive and eliminate potential cheating and fraud to instead:
Exempt food products, residential rents and utitilities, gasoline, and medical services.
However, the 1st paragraph of the above summary MUST be paramount in any reform effort.
Since I’m having trouble with links today, here is Boortz’s article:
MICHELLE NUNN AND THE FAIRTAX
By Neal Boortz
There are many verbal or written cues that can identify someone as a person with little knowledge of the subject at hand, but a great penchant for demagoguery. Perhaps one of the greatest of such cues would be the use of the “R” word. Yup … you got it … calling someone a racist. People who use that word seldom (if ever) know what the word actually means. They say it because they’ve heard other people say it, and it seems to be an effective and proven way to bring any conversation to a screaming halt.
There is one particular conversation that Democrats simply don’t want to have, and that is conversation about the FairTax. When the subject is broached, as it was by Republican David Perdue in his campaign for the open Georgia Senate seat, Democrats have to find a way to shut it down. The more people learn about the FairTax – the TRUTH about the FairTax – the more likely they are to support it; and that goes double, maybe even triple, for those on the lower end of the economic scale.
Well … that brings us to Michelle (Nunn) Martin. (Her real last name is Martin, you know). She heard David Perdue express support for the FairTax. She lives in Georgia, and she knows that for some unexplainable reasopm support for the FairTax in Georgia is high. She had to come up with an argument that would convince the voters her campaign is targeting, big government liberals and people voting for a living, that the FairTax is a bad idea.
So … Michelle Nunn strikes during a GPTV debate on October 17th. From the statement she made during that debate it is absolutely clear that she did not one ounce of research on the FairTax on her own. She relied on the Democrat Party and her 0bama Administration handlers for her FairTax talking points and, as so many before her have done, proceeded to exhibit her ignorance on the subject to everyone with an actual clue.
First … though you probably don’t need to be told … let me ‘splain to you why Democrats hate the FairTax so intensely. Now I’m sorry I don’t have the time to completely explain the FairTax to you; for that you can go to www.FairTax.org, or you can actually read the two books I wrote: “FairTax” and “FairTax, the Truth.” When you understand the FairTax you will understand that Democrats despise and fear this tax reform plan because they KNOW that it would be the largest transfer of power from government to the people since our Constitution was ratified. Democrats live, eat and breathe government power. They obtain this power by making huge segments of the American population dependent on government. The FairTax would take literally millions of Americans dependent on government and make them self-reliant citizens with private sector jobs and strong economic growth.
Did I just say “private sector jobs?” Why yes, I did. And I used that phrase less than a week after Hillary Clinton, the presumptive Democrat presidential candidate in 2016, warned us not to let anyone tells us that corporations and small businesses create jobs. Well just imagine what businesses could do in this country if there were no corporate income taxes, and if there was no tax component added to labor or capital! America would become the biggest job creating economy in history … and Democrats would lose millions of voters who once voted for their living but who now earn that living in the private sector.
So just what did Michelle Nunn say about the FairTax?
Well .. the first thing out of her mouth is the 30% nonsense. She said “The FairTax would mean a 30%= tax on things like groceries, milk, everything.”
The FairTax is an inclusive tax … just like the income tax it is designed to replace. It’s this simple. If you earn $10,000 and you’re in the 28% tax bracket, you will pay 28% of $10,000, or $2,800. Under the FairTax if an item costs $100 and the FairTax rate is 23%, $23 of that $100 would be the tax, not $30.00. So where does Michelle Nunn come up with the 30% distortion? Well, as I said, she didn’t come up with it at all. She did NO research. She got that number from her Democrat Party – the party that is desperately fighting this tax reform plan that would free millions of voters from government dependency. Here’s how the Democrats came up with that number: You buy something for $100. Of that sum $23 goes to the government, and $77 goes to the merchant and the producer of that item. You divide the $23 in tax by the $77 that goes to the merchant and you get 0.2987 or 30%. Now if you went back to our example earning $10,000 and paying $2,800 in income taxes because he’s in the 28% tax bracket and figured the tax rate the exact same way, by dividing the $2,800 paid to the government by the $7,200 kept by the taxpayer you would come up with an income tax rate of 38.9%, not 28%. Democrats like Michelle Nunn like to keep with the false 30% claim for the FairTax, but refuse to apply the same formula to their precious income tax because the income tax is their baby, the FairTax is a grave threat.
There’s another key to understanding that Michelle Nunn knows NOTHING about the FairTax and is merely relying on talking points from Obama and the Democrat National Campaign Committee. Nunn is being widely quoted as saying that 50% of Georgians would end up paying more in taxes under the FairTax, and that the rich would pay less.
Blatantly untrue.
What did Michelle Nunn miss?
The prebate.
The truth is nobody – not one individual – not one American household – would pay one single penny to the federal government in taxes until they had met the basic and essential needs of their family. How does that work? The federal government develops a figure every year of just how much a family of a certain size has to pay to cover the family’s basic necessities … food, clothing, shelter, transportation and the like. Right now that figure for a family of four is $31,020. So if you go out and spend $31,020 to support a family of four, just how much of that total is going to end up in the hands of the federal government? At a FairTax rate of 23% that figure would be $7,135. Now divide that figure by twelve. You’ll come up with $595 per month that family would be paying in FairTax. So, under the FairTax plan, that family would receive a monthly prebate of $595. It’s called a prebate because it’s paid at the beginning of the month, not at the end after the consumer has spent the money. The prebate would come in the form of a credit to a bank checking account, a debit card, a credit card … you get the idea.
So why did Michelle Nunn completely ignore the prebate? Easy. Because she had no clue it existed, that’s why. You could jam what Michelle Nunn knows about the FairTax up an ant’s hiney and it would rattle around like a BB in a boxcar. She didn’t know about the FairTax prebate because she did absolutely NO research on her own … NONE … and simply relied on talking points supplied to her by the Democrat Party.
Now I have to assume that there are people reading this who are learning something about the FairTax for the first time. First let me say that over $22 million dollars went into research and development of this tax reform plan. It’s not just a wild harebrained idea. It is easily the most researched piece of legislation that has appeared before the Congress of the United States in our lifetimes. For instance, do you think for a minute that anywhere close to that amount of money was spent developing and designing Obamacare?
One more point .. that 23% FairTax rate. If you’re not familiar with the plan that figure may horrify you. In fact, Michelle Nunn said that the 23% figure would mean that 50% of Georgians would end up paying $4000 more in taxes. Now I’m not going to call that a lie. You have to know something to be untrue when you say it for the statement to be a lie. Michelle Nunn didn’t know that statement was false because, again, she did no research and asked no questions on her own. She just parroted Democrat talking points. So here’s what she didn’t tell you, and what she probably doesn’t even know.
The FairTax gets rid of personal and corporate income taxes, estate taxes and payroll (Social Security and Medicare) taxes. Put together these taxes represent an average of about 22% of the cost of all goods and services sold in the United States. Again .. those taxes disappear. They are replaced by the FairTax. The competitive pressures of the marketplace will prevent any merchant or producer from trying to reap a windfall by adding the FairTax to the price of their product without a compensating reduction in product costs to reflect the disappearance of income and payroll taxes. We have seen instances where businesses have tried to keep prices at current levels when tax components are eliminated, and it has never worked. The prices come down. So … under the FairTax consumer prices for goods and services will remain virtually unchanged.
Now there’s not much time left before the vote next Tuesday. I’m out of town. In fact -— rather far away in Hawaii. As I type these notes I can hear the surf crashing on the waves below. But I do have a working telephone – and I make this challenge to Michelle Nunn. You chose the venue. You chose the radio talk show – the news program – the press conference – and you allow me to patch in by telephone so that you and I can debate the FairTax. Think you can handle that Michelle? Think you could survive in that debate without your Democrat/Obama talking points?
Let’s give it a try. You people know how to reach me.
10% Federal flat tax on corporations (currently 35% & highest in world). This 10% rate would attract a huge rush of businesses to locate in US and create jobs.
10% Federal flat tax on individuals
5% State/Local tax (total - they can sort out how much to each)
“The fair tax (sales tax) is not perfect, but it makes it much harder to buy votes.”
Why? All they would do is make certain items tax-free.
Shoes priced under $100 = no tax.
Houses under 150,000.00, new or used = no tax.
Rents under 1,000 = no tax.
All non-ready to eat foods = no tax.
You just double the tax on things the non-preferred class can afford, and bingo, the votes roll in.
It is a joke, a scam dreamed up by a libtardian in the fog of a big new bag of herb.
“We need lower tax rates, flatten it out.
The FAIR tax is over-complicated, doesn’t reduce rates and the “prebate” is the most retarded thing ever devised.”
The income tax started out lower and flatter, and politicians have spent every day making it worse and worse.
The prebate is like the standard deduction we have now.
NO!
If the 16th Amendment is not repealed, the “progressive” tax rates will come back. Envy and avarice are always on the prowl. There will always be a large constituency for soaking “the rich.”
The FAIR tax is NOT complicated. It is one rate. And it replaces ALL OTHER federal taxes. While 23% seems high, ALL OTHER TAXES would be repealed.
The whole point of the prebate is to take care of your concern about the poor.
You just dismiss the facts with a wave of the hand.
And the poor are being taxed NOW. The many hidden taxes that the poor are paying NOW would be repealed.
As long as the IRS and the income tax exist, they will come ROARING BACK. There will always be demagogues, and there will always be envious idiots who will support soaking “the rich.”
“You people are as close to major (as in, eliminating the IRS) tax reform as you are to total legalization of narcotics for recreational purposes. Bad analogy, I know, but I’m talking about expectations.
The current tax code is controlled by the fat, slovenly, incompetent leeches that currently control the country. They can pass whatever taxes they desire and the IRS will enforce it. The leeches then use the code and the money to buy themselves votes from the welfare, entitlement and humanist crowd so that said leeches can continue to stay in a job where they don’t have to work, don’t have to think, and simply get a paycheck in spite of the fact they’re too stupid to work anywhere else.
You think they’re ever going to close down their gravy train? “
Of course they wouldn’t shut it down willingly - that’s why the Fair Tax is worth fighting for :)
But it’s not FAIR if the rich pay only 10%!!!
Don’t ask for any evidence. It’s SELF-EVIDENT.
If the 16th Amendment isn’t repealed, the FDR income tax will come back.
“FLAT TAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not “FAIR” Tax- with its pre-bates and guaranteed vote buying.
Just take to any “fair” tax zealot and ask them to try to explain the “tax-inclusive” rate and listen to them try and justify it.. You will realize it is a liberal dream”
Wrong - just the opposite...
“Allows exemptions from the tax for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes, and for state government functions.”
Gee, everything a business owner would ever need or want would become a business purchase! No IRS to ever check, so what the heck.
Those with already taxed savings in the bank would take it up the a$$ when they spend it, but so what, most of them are old anyway.
“Prebate not withstanding (it’s the only detractor, IMHO):
FAIR, not flat. The latter does not ensure everyone pays ‘their fair share’; the former is the only voluntary payment system.
Flat would still require an IRS, fair would be a ‘tiered’ payment system...user -> biz -> State -> Fed. and thus, no need for ‘tracking’.
Fair would also encourage thrift and ‘home grown’ (baking, sewing, trade, barter, etc. to reduce taxes even farther)
We need to STARVE the beast, not find alternatives to feed. Sad that is even talk about ‘the poor poor’...when they come out ahead of those working 40hrs.+/wk (IE: Leave charity up to those whom voluntary do so, not by the power of the gun of gov’t)”
Well stated, thanks :)
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