CDC Now Says Ebola Droplets Can Spread Six Feet, Not Three

CDC ^ | 10/31/14

[Paladin2]

There’s no science much of anywhere regarding the risks of 0bola importation to North America.

[Jim Noble]

How far and to what extent are unknown

The law of gravity governs respiratory droplets, it's really not correct that the extent is unknown.

Look, CDC made (or were ordered to make) two fundamental errors in July in their guidance documents, failed to correct them when they were obviously wrong, blamed a nurse for following their incorrect guidance, and have since emitted a stream of confusing and contradictory information. I have been a consistent critic of their fundamental errors and the bad results that have flowed from them.

But droplets are droplets. They are well-understood and they behave as they do over a narrow range of time and space.

I have made the point you are making about a common-sense or common-man use of the term "airborne" as opposed to its technical meaning at least twenty times in lectures about this disease since August.

But common usage does not change physics or biology. Ebola has an R value = 2 because it is not airborne, and that is very unlikely to change. Environmental studies in Liberia, in Spain, and in Dallas, as well as DNA testing in the Emory biocontainment unit and in prior epidemics all make environmental surfaces a very, very unlikely source of transmission, unlike direct contamination of skin or garments, which is the major vector everywhere in the world.

The abysmal performance of CDC does not change the facts.

[Jim Noble]

There’s no science much of anywhere regarding the risks of 0bola importation to North America.

No, but prior importations into South Africa, and current importations into Senegal, Nigeria, Spain, and Dallas are all quite reassuring with regard to novel means of transmission.

[babygene]

“The law of gravity governs respiratory droplets, it’s really not correct that the extent is unknown.”

What you say is not true Jim... A warm droplet will stay aloft in cold air longer than it will in warm air. That’s just science and common sense.

I’m a smoker, and in the winter the smoke rises, and in the hot months it heads for the ground. How clearer could it be?

[null and void]

Bring out your dead! The Dark Man cometh! Bring out your dead! The Dark Man cometh! Bring out your......

(Since all records of obama's past were lost in a tragic boating accident and fire, no one can be certain that the guy in the red circle isn't him...)

Post to me or FReep mail to be on/off the Bring Out Your Dead ping list.

The purpose of the “Bring Out Your Dead” ping list (formerly the “Ebola” ping list) is very early warning of emerging pandemics, as such it has a high false positive rate.

So far the false positive rate is 100%.

At some point we may well have a high mortality pandemic, and likely as not the “Bring Out Your Dead” threads will miss the beginning entirely.

*sigh* Such is life, and death...

[Enlightened1]

“I have made the point you are making about a common-sense or common-man use of the term “airborne” as opposed to its technical meaning”

Jim I have noticed you have FAILED to site your independent medical dictionary that verifies “Airborne” in the medical world has a different meaning than in the Webster Dictionary.

Why is that so difficult for you if as you said,

“that definition has not changed in 60 years”???

On the other hand I have sited the Webster dictionary 3 times on this thread.

[Jim Noble]

Jim I have noticed you have FAILED to site your independent medical dictionary that verifies “Airborne” in the medical world has a different meaning than in the Webster Dictionary

I've worked in infectious diseases epidemiology for forty years. You can believe me, or not believe me, it's totally your choice.

We don't usually do our work by looking up words in dictionaries. If you google "airborne transmission", you can find hundreds of references that substantiate what I'm telling you. If you want to believe otherwise, that's your business.

However, while you are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.

If Ebola were airborne, there would not be zero cases from the Patrick Sawyer flight from Monrovia to Lagos in July. Of 200 persons exposed to recirculated air for more than 2 hours 30 minutes, there were no cases. In a study of 173 household contacts of 27 Ebola patients, 0/78 with no physical contact acquired Ebola. Of over seventy persons exposed to Thomas Duncan on 9/25/14, who used either no PPE or "standard" precautions (hand washing and gloves) all are now 36 days out with zero cases.

None of these facts are consistent with airborne transmission.

[Enlightened1]

I am sorry but I have no way to verify your background. I know you already know that. So do you REALLY THINK that is going to have any weight??? LOL!

The fact you can’t do this validates my initial thoughts.

Whoever you are..., I do not understand why you are warpath against basic caution for a Bio safety level 4 event? This is when you already know it has killed over 5,0000 people in a very short period. Just remember that’s more than we lost on 911. I am sure you consider that a big event.

Anyhow, the consequences if your wrong will be catastrophic. I rather take the safe route of following the law and basic protocol. Over 30 countries are doing that now, and we are not. Think about it...

[combat_boots]

We have people being monitored in ME, FL, AL, TX, NE, CA, ND, OR, NY, etc.

In other words, in every corner of this country.

This sounds like a board game of Risk. Or Battleship. Or Monopoly.

[steve86]

Noble’s background is as he states and, BTW, the word is “cite”.

But if he says he won a ‘Nobel’ prize for his work he might be exaggerating. :>)

[Jim Noble]

You don’t know what I’ve advocated for.

I posted here on August 8 that the airports in Conakry, Monrovia, Freetown AND Bamako should be closed, and I’ve said that over and over.

I’ve posted here that arrivals from Liberia, Guinea, and Sierra Leone should have a mandatory quarantine in a fixed location enforced by uniformed USPHS officers, backed up by the military if necessary.

As I said, believe whatever you want. Infections caused by close physical contact with end-stage patients and corpses will continue to mount. Evidence for airborne transmission will continue to not appear.

[greeneyes]

I think I know who you mean. Don't hold your breath waiting on that admission-you'll turn blue and pass out, and when you wake up, the admission will still be nonexistent.

[greeneyes]

Roomate HAD Ebola and has now assumed room temperature, according to what I read.

[greeneyes]

Didn’t you hear-those two nurses infected themselves-Yep someone actually posted that as a fact.

[greeneyes]

I am no expert on health or epidemiology, but this is my meager understanding of the differences, which is not eloquently stated and may not use the terms that it should. As a lay person it makes sense to me.

My understanding of the terms is that larger droplets from sneezing for example, require what is called “droplet” precautions. These particles are large enough that they fall to the ground quickly and don’t stay suspended in the air for long.

Smaller droplets remain suspended in air for longer periods, and may be so small that they can float and enter the ventilation system.

These droplets require what is termed “airborne” precautions, which includes an isolation unit with special air ventilation to avoid it spreading to other rooms through the air, and to people who have had not contact with the patient or entry into the room.

Both particles at some point may be in the air. A link with explanation is noted below:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/741245_3

[greeneyes]

have had not = have not had

[Smokin' Joe]

Ping...

A link to this thread has been posted on the Ebola Surveillance Thread

[Smokin' Joe]

Of course, where the CDC works, the air is dead calm. Never a blast from a Heat or AC vent, never a breeze, never an updraft. So we are all safe, right?

Where I live, the snow wears out on its way to Minnesota--often suspended in the air.

When those droplets freeze on contact with the air, then what?

[Smokin' Joe]

Schoolchildren now are taught to sneeze into the crook of their elbow (cuts down on handing the virus around during cold and flu season).

Just be careful who you rub elbows with...

[RummyChick]

But the US Government is concerned about AEROSOL transmission of Ebola. That is a fact.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3220110/posts

AND

In July our Government awarded an 8.5 million dollar contract to Profectus BioSciences to develop a vaccine to combat ALL STRAINS OF EBOLA DELIVERED as AEROSOLS.

So somewhere, out there...is proof that it is possible that it can be transmitted via AEROSOL TRANSMISSION and the govt is worried about it being used as an WMD.