Posted on 07/20/2014 6:23:56 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
MH17 flight feared to have been shot down over Ukraine was taking a significantly different route to the usual course for flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, according to aviation expert.
The crashed MH17 flight took a route 300 miles to the north of its usual path, an aviation expert has said.
Robert Mark, a commercial pilot who edits Aviation International News Safety magazine, said that most Malaysia Airlines flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur normally travelled along a route significantly further south than the plane which crashed.
Malaysia Airlines has insisted its plane travelled on an "approved route" used by many other carriers.
But Mr Mark said: "I can only tell you as a commercial pilot myself that if we had been routed that way, with what's been going on in the Ukraine and the Russian border over the last few weeks and months, I would never have accepted that route....
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
It could have been a rebel doing something out of turn and is now dead because of it.
It could have been a direct order for the Kremlin to shoot it down.
But just because Putin is evil and communism is evil, doesn't mean questions cannot be asked about the pilots intent.
A Muslim makes one MA jet disappear, so is it not out of the realm of possibility that the ROP had something to do with another jet from the same airline?
Nobody has any answers yet, so I think it is a bit early for those of us have seen ROP in action over the last 20 years to be dismissed as 'Putin fanbois' because of justified suspicion.
He just got the east-west air corridor over Ukraine closed raising the cost of West-East air travel on the heels of the US levelling sanctions on his companies a few days earlier.
It’s called Tit for Tat. This now gives him bargaining power to get the sanctions lifted and more.
He also wants Kiev to recognize his thug Donetsk puppets as a legitimate government and this will be part of the negotiations.
Recognize Donetsk thug government, then there will be peace and missile batteries come back to Russia, and air corridor is reopened.
Why send an army in when you can accomplish your objective by shooting a plane out of the sky and holding their dead bodies as hostages.
A pilot always has the right—for safety reasons—to make the decision to accept a routing. If the controller is not able to give the pilot a routing he likes, the pilot may declare an emergency, which in most cases will force the routing he wants onto the air traffic control system. Outside of an emergency, a civilian pilot may not stray into restricted airspace without approval of air traffic control.
If the routing in a pilot-declared emergency takes the pilot into restricted areas or where other traffic may be a problem, the controller will apprise the pilot of that if at all possible, and reroute the other traffic as needed and if possible.
I believe part of the controversy is that some deem ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) should have declared the eastern Ukraine restricted airspace, through which no controller would then give a civilian craft clearance, except related to an emergency.
If a pilot crosses into forbidden airspace, fighters from the transgressed country may be scrambled to accompany the flight and make whatever demands of the pilot their military/government deems appropriate.
In more peaceful scenarios, diplomats will be left to work through the details of transgressed airspace. In more belligerent cases, guns and missiles may determine the outcome.
If the rebels shot down MH17 (without further complication), whoever they organizationally are should be shouldering the burden of compensation to the victims. If they’re paper-thin proxies for Russia, those “chickens may come home to roost.” To the extent the possible proxy question comes clear through this situation, I think the world will welcome that aspect.
HF
Thanks, very informative.
Since some countries were avoiding flying over the Ukraine by flying south around it, it would be interesting to explore who made the decision to route MH17 over land. I’ve heard a lot of contradictory stories whose truth I can’t evaluate—that the route was chosen to minimize fuel costs; that it was assigned by controllers in Kiev; and finally, that someone had looked up a few weeks of back data on FlightStats for prior runs of MH17 and found that almost all of them went south over water.
Very informative thread on TimeB2000. The whole thread is worth it.
Here’s a link to page 17, comment 677 has an article from USAToday, the next page of the thread has posted an interview with the Russian defense minister. There is no way I know of to link to a specific comment. The last few pages of this thread are well worth reading in detail. I’ve been following over there carefully. Entire articles are not only allowed to be posted, it’s one of the rules there.
It seems it may have been in Kiev’s interest to give their military transports cover by authorizing civilian airliners to fly above the restricted corridor as well as giving similar routes to military transports.
Perhaps Kiev calculated (wrongly) that the separatists, having no engaging threat from such altitudes, would not fire upon such craft.
If that’s what someone was thinking, it’s obviously flawed logic, as the separatists would desire to disrupt transport and logistics of Kiev’s forces, no matter the altitude. They probably weren’t so discriminating or nuanced as to exempt unidentified, civilian targets. Apparently, neither did they care sufficiently the precise altitude of whatever craft were flying through that airspace.
I think the world will care and hold someone beyond the missile installation commander accountable.
HF
Take a look at my links. It is not clear at all that Putin had anything to do with this. People who hate Russia like to think so. Keep in mind any position 0bastard takes is likely to be wrong, and at the very least his positions should be looked at VERY CAREFULLY if one is inclined to agree with him. 0bastard hates Putin because Putin took the side of Assad instead of the AQ/various jihadis in Syria, among other reasons. And entering a war with Russia would be devastating for the US. And since 0bastard is tasked with weakening and wrecking the US, that is his likely motive here.
Try taking a look at the links I posted above. Lots of info there.
MarMema, take a look at the links I posted above.
The timestamp on that supposed boasting was the day before the incident, btw.
Malaysia Airlines better recruit some better pilots. They have two recent flights that seem to be hundreds of miles off course.
And that will cost Malaysian Airlines at least $500mil in court.
It's a war zone for crying out loud.
Commercial passenger liners fly over war zones constantly, above 32,000 feet.
Ben Gurion International does over 100,000 takeoff and landings a year. No airport in the world is more at risk.
Commercial passenger liners fly over war zones constantly, above 32,000 feet.
Ben Gurion International does over 100,000 takeoff and landings a year. No airport in the world is more at risk.
I am no expert. I am just listening to those who are.
fishy indeed. An hour earlier Putin’s plane was flying in the same area... could it be some creepy people in State and WH were using their stooges in Kiev to shoot that plane instead?????
Click on the comment number itself. Clicking on #677 opens that comment into a new window with its own url. Use that url to create the link:
Thank you - I meant on the site to which I linked. I finally learned not long ago, how to do the link to a comment here on FR. After many years.
However, for some reason he accepted it. Perhaps to save $1500 worth of fuel. Or there was something else.
it is getting interesting by the day.
New development: another shadow of KAL007.
Ruskies today claimed (and have evidence) that U.S. spy satellite flew overhead at the very time MH17 being shot down and ask from U.S. to release the photos and electronic other records of the shootdown. Ouch.
They also claim that Ukrainian SU-25 was shadowing MH17 at a distance of 3 nm.
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