Posted on 05/02/2014 3:12:06 PM PDT by tcrlaf
Ukraine’s National Guard is reportedly storming the eastern town of Kramatorsk. Meanwhile, the army has resumed its special operation in Slavyansk, where two soldiers have been killed.
“The assault is starting now,” a Kramatorsk self-defense activist has told RIA Novosti by phone. Another activist told the news agency that the National Guard opened fire on self-defense forces.
Dozens have been killed or injured in Kramatorsk, a doctor told RIA Novosti. The medic added that the fighting has now stopped and all of those injured have been taken to hospitals in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. At least two died on the way to the hospital, she said.
(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...
The unit from Crimea was put together in Crimea.....It was formed by volunteers, half or two-thirds of them are citizens of Ukraine. The unit includes people from western and central Ukraine. It also includes local fighters from the region itself.....it was by Sloviansk s invitation the units went to Sloviansk.
Most of the men in the command possess war experience, including former service in the Russian or Ukrainian militaries and tours in Chechnya, Central Asia, the former Yugoslavia and Iraq......
Their unit’s weapons came partly from police facilities they took over in Slovyansk. .... also stripped arms and vehicles from Ukrainian forces they repelled when the Kiev militants tried to enter the area earlier this month.... military hardware his unit gained included about 150 automatic weapons, a few grenade launchers and six infantry combat vehicles.
Russia so far hasn’t supplied them with a single machine gun or bullet...everything was ‘gifted’ by the Ukrainian military and police.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304788404579526160643349256
Geeze man, Putin even admitted he had troops in Crimea. It’s not some secret anymore.
From the article: MOSCOW — A confident President Vladimir Putin on Thursday used his annual televised meeting with the nation to portray a powerful Russia — one that is dismissive of the West, had troops operating in Crimea even as it denied it and regards a large swath of southeastern Ukraine as historically part of its territory.....(more)
I agree that some of these separatists have arms they gained from former Ukrainian units that switched sides, dropped their gear and ran, etc, but to believe that Russian operatives and special ops aren’t heavily involved in stirring up and reinforcing “protests” is to be sticking your head in the sand. You can bet Russia had contingency plans for this very thing, just like most nations war game out and prepare for many scenarios.
Updated:
” Eyewitnesses report that tonight’s battle at Kramatorsk has stopped. ..Kiev Army did NOT succeed in entering city.”
However Nato wasn't prepared for Putin to act as he did.....nor took into account the Nato Member states were not enlarging their military camps to protect themselves as was required by Eu/Nato agreements. Now they're all scrambling to determine what to do, and of course relying on the US for their nations protection because they failed to do so themselves.
I recall at the Atlantic meetings the consistent voice that the US had to do more, and yet we already have been doing far more than our share of the heavy lifting. Nato is nothing but a propped up extension of our military.
So of course all these Nato members were bawling and screaming the US had to do something....
We are sooooo being used, and drained, by EU's quest for power as a Nation State of it's own because our government is in lockstep with the EU's agenda ....
Exactly like that.
That's my point.
The whole friggin' world is like that.
How much of it should we fix?
You know we probably agree on some things. I hate the EU, and I hate how the Europeans have used us - pressing America to pay for their defense while they built social welfare states that are crumbling (though they’ll continue kicking the can as long as they possible). To give you an idea of how much I hate the EU/Eurozone, if I were Greece I would have simply defaulted and quit it altogether, took the short term hit, went back to their old currency and I’m guessing we may both agree they’d be far better off today.
Still, look at the big picture. The Ukraine is roughly 75% ethnic Ukrainian and has been under the boot of it’s giant neighbor Russia for a very long time. However we may feel about it, the average Ukrainian (particularly ethnic Ukrainian) has had far more recent bad experiences with Russia than they have had with the EU/NATO. Ever wonder why so many of these old Russian satellites are desperate to join the EU even as it slowly collapses under it’s own weight? Because they fear Russia more. Many of these Eastern European/Baltic nations know EU policies suck, but would gladly join if it will keep the Russians at bay. That’s just how it is.
There was no agreement between NATO and Russia wherein NATO would refuse to accept former Soviet-bloc states who wanted to join. And why shouldn't they be allowed to join? After all, Russia has a long history of invading its weaker, smaller neighbors. How do you think Russia got so big in the first place? An agreement with NATO would require all of NATO formerly recognizing it. There is no such thing as a secret agreement or an "understanding" that is in any way binding.
He's been warning the EU/US ever since they went after the Baltics and now others in their pipeline....heck even before that. So what did they expect going after Ukraine??? A hand out?
IOW, you are claiming that Russia has the right to bully, rape and murder countries that do not want to be forever trapped under the Comintern's control.
We are sooooo being used, and drained, by EU's quest for power as a Nation State of it's own because our government is in lockstep with the EU's agenda ....
Notice that in all of this rambling nonsense you never once actually consider the opinion of the Ukrainians themselves. To you, they are a non-entity, to be butchered by Russia if they hold to the wrong opinion.
Agreed, though Russian paranoia is a fact of life and we do have to consider that when admitting new members. Right or wrong, Russia may feel NATO membership for Ukraine is just a bridge too far. Call it national pride, or considering Ukraine its national buffer, or whatever, any Russian government may recoil at this. Still, your point is spot on. A free Ukraine should be able to petition to join whatever organization it wants.
To me the lesson is this: Don't give up your nukes. Never, ever, give up your nukes. If Ukraine had them today, things would be a whole lot different. At minimum, the Ukraine could use them as leverage to get a lot more Western help just by hinting they might use them to defend their territory.
when you are dealing with a bunch of Communists hell bent on dominating the Ukraine (and the world), yeah, I can justify that!
And you would too if Commies showed up in your town, took it over, and started trouble.
Posting that photo is revolting propaganda. Disgusting. Reported.
Am I supposed to weep for them more than for the Ukrainians and Tatars murdered by the Kremlin’s stooges? If the Putinistas want the Russians to fight a glorious war for the Motherland, they will need to get a stronger stomach. You will be seeing many more dead combatants and tools of the Kremlin ere long, God willing!
I do understand what you are saying about nations desiring to be "independant"..but they can't without a handout and most are unwilling to do the heavy lifting required, or sacrifice their comfort zone for that. Sink or swim they might do best by going it alone.
However, What is happening in Ukraine has nothing to do with what the Ukrainians want, thought they've been manipulated to believe so. It never was as soon as other nation states got involved.
They were months from the next election, and even early voting was agreed on...so the issue wasn't about what the people wanted at all. IMO...and still isn't...
Those now in office would love nothing better than to have the election ahead derailed, I said long ago it would come to delaying it "for violence", and low and behold Obama said to day the violence was likely going to prevent the election.
Handy for the Current Kiev Government to solidify and consolidate their members within,..which are fully under the US direction. So it's really delaying it so our Gov. can further their agenda for Ukraine. There will be no election until the US has everything they want in place for that to occur....I hate with a passion what our country's leadership has become.
But your post says exactly what I've pointed out...why are we involving our people and our monies on Ukraine....we stand to gain nothing..except of course putting missles on Putins doorstep. Which isn't necessary with the trajectory they do today.
Reports from Odessa are 5-10 Ukrainians were shot to death and about 40 Pro-Russians burned. It’s all horrific and sad.
Notice that the Putin parrots didn’t say a word about the Pro-Ukraine marchers brutally beaten in Donetsk on tuesday. No photo galleries of the carnage. It’s all out there. None of them posted the pics.
Another beat down seems to have been the Team FSB plan today in Odessa. When the SHTF the Green Men started shooting. Putin saw in the streets of Odessa today there are indeed Ukrainian patriots willing to face down his murders unarmed.
They didn’t just disagree, they took over your state capital, ran the police out of town, and said you cannot conduct order here. Oh and by the way they did that all with military equipment from another country.
Actually, they did it with old Soviet military equipment buried in a salt mine under Slovyansk a quarter century ago.
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