Posted on 04/24/2014 12:36:32 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
A collection of photographs that Ukraine says shows the presence of Russian forces in the eastern part of the country, and which the United States cited as evidence of Russian involvement, has come under scrutiny.
The photographs were submitted by Ukraine last week to the Organization for Security and Cooperation, an organization in Vienna that has been monitoring the situation in Ukraine.
Some of the photographs were also provided by American officials to Secretary of State John Kerry so he could show them when he met in Geneva last Thursday with his counterparts from the European Union, Russia, and Ukraine.
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(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
I absolutely agree with any cynicism towards the MSM, but sometimes it’s a simple motivation: if they don’t have reporters on the ground, they don’t cover it. And they no longer have the resources they used to, nor does anyone want to go where they are no longer welcome. Consider Baghdad’s housing of CNN personnel.
I’ve learned to look closely at photos and consider many things about them as I do....it wasn’t too hard to see that anyone pointing his gun, as these guys did, would have never made it through basic training!
I do believe there are under-groups other than their local militias there. Imo,(and don’t we all have them) I can see Russia sending Chechnian’s to fight the Nazi elements that are increasing in numbers in Ukraine. Which I think is some of what’s happening currently.
Trouble is Kiev Gov. is calling the Pro-Russian Militia’s terroists in order to justify sending troops, (they cannot otherwise without declaring war), because the EU and US will not and cannot support Kiev Government with an unstable environment as is now.....no elections...which I believe the Kiev Gov. prefers there not be.
Russia, on the other hand knows well the US has taken over running things in Ukraine’s Governance and otherwise and embedding US teams to control that.
Not so sure the US would restrain as much as Russia has so far if this was happening on our borders....but then with Obama at the helm he’d not do a thing even then!
Unfortunately without MSM then nobody hears and their plights can be easily forgotten.
Look at Syria, Libya and Egypt now...all a mess...I'm sorry to say the US has created and done more harm than good in trying to dispose of nation leaders....and they seem to be backing the worst groups while doing so...for which makes me ashamed it’’s my country doing so.
Huh?
Yep.
...Kiev Gov. is calling the Pro-Russian Militia’s terroists in order to justify sending troops, (they cannot otherwise without declaring war), because the EU and US will not and cannot support Kiev Government...
Yep, keep in mind the US can take no LEGAL action without UN approval, impossible considering Russia - China (and possibly others) veto.
Not so sure the US would restrain as much as Russia has so far if this was happening on our borders...
Depends on who or what was gettin' in.
I can see Russia sending Chechen’s to fight the Nazi elements that are increasing in numbers in Ukraine.
Saved best for last,
Putin's Russia is the only entity in history that has co-opted and forced a Muslim military to abandon it's loyalty to the Islamic people of it's namesake, and to fight as mercenaries for Islam's enemy, Christianity. No small feat.
Obama is doing the opposite.
What’s the huh? for.
The Kiev Gov. can’t send troops out without a declaration of war according to their Constitution, which is what they did. ....So they called them ‘anti-terrorist special forces’.....and therefore labeled the Pro-Russian’s, who have secured Government Buildings and control of those cities..terrorists. Additionally Kiev sends Svoboda/Pravy Sektor/relabeled “National Guard” thugs where needed....just as they used them for the violence which occured with maidan...and they admit this.
According to the Pres. of Ukraine..”The ‘terrorists’ have effectively taken the whole Donetsk region hostage”.
And of course most likely Brennan and Biden have intervened to push things along as events took place soon after each had arrived and or left Ukraine.
But it was when Turchynov called for a new anti-terror action, things got messy
Agree, but they can dance around getting UN approval by claiming what they are doing is "assisting" the Kiev Gov. control the criminal/terrorist element...and then run these under-groups where they want them..particularly the right Sector thugs, who are numerous. Coupled with the Nazi element they have an "army".
It will get terribly and horribly bloody if the Chec's and Nazi's go at it. Not to mention fear ravaged in Ukraine....which as these numbers grow, and the population already seeing them, they are already afraid...they do not see the US helping so they will indeed cry out to Russia then who would be more than happy to accommodate the need.
Our “leaders” just can’t get it through their heads that the internet allows everyone to check stuff.
You are so right...all you mentioned comes into how one should see the MSM.....But also..
.... if you note who is seeing who, and where....if you note whenever McCain is anywhere somethings going to follow with that nations leadership and or “adjustment”. Just as Obama is in Asia now and Michelle-ee bab-eee visited China....in hopes of staving off Russia’s advances on the Asian deals pending...
But in In Ukraine recently it first got messier after CIA Director Brennan’s visit.... It RE-started after Biden... so much for an Independent Ukraine!.... They are in no way whatsoever in charge of anything in their country...as said before... the current Gov is simply the “doorkeeper” for the US to come and go as they please....and any wonder why the EU is pretty much out of the picture currently....it’s our money and our teams pushing buttons in Ukraine.
I don’t know for I can’t read the language...I do know they refer quite often to outside militias etc...perhaps Russians as well, coming in as ‘tourists’ so might explain that.
Chronicles from Russian soldiers at the front show the rise of Russian patriotism and concern for Christianity during this campaign, including the adoption of Christian symbols and battle cries against a dedicated and merciless enemy.
The Russians and their officers learned how to engage and defeat the Chechen terrorist and military, each in their own backyard, rugged mountains or scattered towns.
Putin may have been entirely political in his administration of the Chechen Campaign, but for most of the Russian military, it was a Christian campaign, and part of an overall improvement in Russian military effectiveness and discipline.
The Russian military of today is far improved over the cold war Soviet military.
I personally don't think Putin will put the Chechens anywhere near Ukraine, he wants his MOST disciplined Russian troops there, the least hotheaded and least likely to screw up and provide a real provocation.
Putin's game is to get the west to loose a live weapon eastward, while NOT loosing one of his westward. In the meantime, he will use Obama's mob rule and Occupy tactics against Maidan and the US, just like they used the same against Russia's economy.
Of course the DemoRats think they can buy Chinese cooperation against the Russians, however, they will pay for it, and then not get it. The Chinese are not stupid, like DemoRat Plantation dwellers.
....”the DemoRats think they can buy Chinese cooperation against the Russians, however, they will pay for it, and then not get it. The Chinese are not stupid, like DemoRat Plantation dwellers”......
Oh you are right about that! Besides with the rail system going full bore connecting China and other European nations, clear to Egypt etc. Why would China have any concerns for the USA.....their markets will be over there ultimately and plentiful, not to mention for Russia as well. It’ll be a hop skip and jump to Euorpean markets as well...
China will only ‘USE’ the US til they are done with milking it of what they want.
What’s actually worse....is once all the Europena nations, Russia and China all get hooked up....what’s that leave us?
Mexico and South America...which will pull us down all the more., short of investing highly in those nations....
Interesting..again.
I only recently recalled what went on in Chechnya, enough to remember Putin didn’t take it well by any means....but knew nothing of the battle cry for Christianity? Guess I am limited in my understanding of that time more than I thought!
As for who he does put in Ukraine...I can only guess, which I obviously have. However if he operates anything like he did going into Crimea, well even even now our own military has been astounded with how he pulled that off so seamlessly.
I’ve spoken with some military people who said the entire operation and how it was executed was pretty astounding. a lot of deception and much denial also came into play.
Still The Eastern part of Ukraine is another story as we’ve seen already....different breed of people there. And it’s not clear they want to join Russia, rather be basically able to govern themselves.
Am getting tired, so off for a nap...just got off from a long couple days and catching up to me!
Ping for critique.
Well, if it’s true they can’t use Ukrainian armed forces against Russian subversives in the Ukraine it makes perfect sense why they would hire mercenaries.
Hopefully they are using this time to call up their armed forces so when the Russians invade they can kick some Russian ass.
In fact these photos were discussed numerous times on this forum. Maybe one in a hundred E. Ukrainian ‘terrorist’ looks any like a military regular. Most of these people are in their 40s which in not typical for Russian military, who are usually around 20 yo and even special forces are well under 30.
There might be some Russian presense but the majority of people are locals or Crimeans, probably ex-military who came to support the locals.
It’s a billboard advertising paintball.
Placemark
....”might be some Russian presense but the majority of people are locals or Crimeans, probably ex-military who came to support the locals”....
General Breedlove made a point to clarify this saying...:
“The un-disciplined weapon handling and un-professional behavior of these pro-Russian, or anti-Maidan, troops are ‘completely inconsistent with any properly trained military’ force... Rifle muzzles are repeatedly pointed to femoral arteries of fellow soldiers, while fingers are on triggers.
To the grunt’s eyes the troops in eastern Ukraine look and behave like reservists or airsoft hobbyists whom have never trained together and have serious deficiencies in infantry small unit tactics and MOUT. .....These troops have no night fighting capabilities, no ballistic protection, no or really poor comms and have clearly forgotten a good part of their infantryman’s skills.
“....the weapons they carry are primarily ex-Soviet, Ukrainian army and security forces issue. Rest of the equipment is clearly commercial or western surplus. That is exactly the kind of materiel that Ukrainian civilians would be likely to get their hands on in large numbers.”
(Sidenote: It’s also established they’ve taken weapons etc. at police barracks in the towns they have taken.)
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