Posted on 04/04/2014 11:24:37 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
Edited on 04/04/2014 11:31:18 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
The U.S. and Europe have been emphatic in their support of the new Ukrainian government – but a significant number of Washington's new bedfellows are members of what some experts class as extreme right-wing parties.
When Sen. John McCain traveled to Kiev in December, he told the crowd of 200,000 on Independence Square: "The free world is with you, America is with you, I am with you."
But among those stood next to the veteran Republican was Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of the Svoboda Party. Some policy analysts have called Svoboda ultra-nationalist and even neo-Nazi.
Svoboda, which means "Freedom," was given almost a quarter of the Cabinet positions in the interim government formed after the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych in February.
The party's policies center around protecting the rights of what it calls “ethnic Ukrainians,” the preservation of the Ukrainian language and culture, and strict controls on immigration.
Although much of the more extreme content has now been removed from Svoboda’s leaflets, the European Parliament passed a resolution on Ukraine in 2012 that asked Kiev not to associate with the party on account of its “racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views.”
One of the party's lawmakers was appointed to run the powerful defense ministry before being forced out. However, Svoboda still holds one of the vice prime minister posts as well as the ministries of agriculture and the environment.
In short, if I assume any objective accuracy from you - which I don’t - a double agent of unknown handlers to unspecified purposes.
I don’t see him setting fire to any buildings or people though.
“Given the pictures above, it’s like calling the kettle black”
Which is one reason among many that this region and this hydra-headed basket of snakes is not worth a single American bootlace.
Because the Soviets did far, far worse to them. The forced starvation of Ukraine in the early 30’s is one of the most underreported genocides of the 20th Century. It isnt that difficult to see why many Ukrainians chose the Nazi’s as the lesser evil.
In Poland the Soviets killed or relocated millions, in their march to capture Germany, they raped any woman or girl they could get their hands on.
Soviet brutality almost made the Nazi’s seem compassionate. When your life is surrounded by sheer brutality, you latch on to any measure of possible freedom, no matter how fleeting.
I still have a lot of family in both Poland and Ukraine, these comments about Nazi’s taking over are way over blown, if you want to see real fascism, take a gander at what is going on in Russia nowadays.
The people in Ukraine are fed up though for the most part, Russia has been manipulating them and treating them like a satellite state even after the Soviet split. They push puppets like Yanukovych to further their interests, a criminal who robbed the nation blind. Ukrainians want nothing to do with joining NATO, but they so wish to join the EU, particularly the younger generation. They want a measure of independence from Russia and are tired of their nation being a Russian puppet.
Still no excuse for worshipping the Nazis.
No it does not.......posts here are additional information/evidence discovered along the way and posted....but you do seem to have a real issue about the facts/evidence being presented...and always from the standpoint that people are either for Ukraine or Russia.....but as most know, there are no good guys on either side in Ukraine....it's a rough neighborhood even under the best of circumstances.
Besides what difference does it make if the Nazi's come also from other areas? They are like the Islamists when a uprising occurs and they have opportunity to fight....they flock to where ever they can unload their rage and hatred...and gain any political influence or advantages of.
However, just so you know the Pres. of Ukraine as well as varied Int'l diplomats are aware of the Nazi influence there and in the government. You just need to get up to date.
Who exactly is worshipping the Nazis??? You act as if Ukraine is somehow unique because there is the presence of Neo Nazi groups, the same groups that are present in every nation in Europe and far more influential in other countries such as Jobbik in Hungary.
When the referendum in Crimea was held, who showed up as “independent onservers?” The worst of the anti-semitics and Nazi’s that Europe has to offer. You had the worst extremists from over a dozen different nations, extremists who see themselves as fellow travelers with the Russians because of shared anti EU and anti Jew viewpoints. Go look at who was in attendance, i’ll be glad to post a link if you want one.
Its a strange relationship, the Neo
-Nazi’s and the liberal Neo Stalinists here in the U.S. all instantly took the Russian side in this affair.
What I am most shocked about is the people on here who seem to be content to be,Putin’s lapdogs simply because he opposes Obama. Nothing in Ukraone is perfect but people want a better life there, they dont want to be under Russia’s thumb...or anyone elses for that matter.
Ukrainian women are overwhelmingly very attractive.
The irony of all this is incredible, especially when you consider the stance that the US/EU take towards “far right” political parties in Western Europe who are much, much more moderate than the folks in Ukraine they are now backing. It just emphasizes that this is all about geopolitical power politics and all the sanctimonious talk about “democracy” and “freedom” in either context is nonsense.
~Translation: Let’s clean up Russia!
To the unsuspecting reader:
the thread is a recycled article, appearing on FR maybe a dozen times in this form or another. It repeats the same Kremlin talking point of “nazi” takeover in Ukraine to justify Russian invasion of Ukraine. Given the pictures above, it’s like calling the kettle black~
How many of these Russian Nazis are sitting in Russian Congress? None. They are laughing stock, pariahs.
And Ukraine’s now a cabinet ministers.
There’s few and far in between in Ukraine I’d care to have much at all to do with. They are a culture to themselves as if abused woman who keep going back to the same people who abuse them....for the sake of being “taken care of”.
The Nazi’s there are likely not so many... but more so ‘the call’ when out and those throughout adjoining countries answered it and went there in order to support the leaders of the Right Sector.
Ukraine is one messed up population....just like the US is sadly becoming....as we see lawlessness rise here.
.....”this is all about geopolitical power politics and all the sanctimonious talk about “democracy” and “freedom” in either context is nonsense”....
Yes! Exactly right!
....”Ukraine people want a better life there, they dont want to be under Russia’s thumb...or anyone elses for that matter”....
The only way any citizen will have the freedom they desire is to move to another country. Ukraine will always be a geo-political state..used and abused by all the players. It really is that simple.
Olena’s cute, when does she start doing press briefs in leather?
Hilarious that we’re involved in this Eastern European comedy...
That’s easy for you to stay from the comfort of your armchair, the average Ukrainian wants to stay and fight for their nation and desires freedom no less than any other man or woman. There is no reason they cant have it, it will take sone work but democracy and freedom are never easy to attain, this nation went through a brutal Civil War before things finally coalesced. The majority of Ukrainians dont want to be part of Russia or ruled by it.
I am amazed at people who claim to support freedom and then cynically deny it to others.
To: Ivan Mazepa
He isn’t my Russian guy, you user of Red Herrings and Ad Hominem to deflect from what McCain was doing, and try to deflect this discussion onto me and other Freepers who post here about this.
Your use of Red Herrings and Ad Hominem is weak and undermines your argument(s) completely.
If these guys aren’t Neo-Nazis (or something close to it)then who are, huh? Did something akin to the Nazi flag just magically appear in some peoples hands on this thread in the pics that were given, huh?
Please, no more trolling and personal attacks against me, Ivan.
Thank you.
74 posts. Wow.
Antiagitprop posts galore.
Actually the far right, the Fascists in other European countries support E
Russia, which is why the wackiest of Europe’s Nazis and fascists went to Crimea to “certify” the election there. Their allegiances are entirely to Russia, the Ukrainian fascists are anti Russian so theyve been blacklisted from the Euro Nazi crowd.
One of the leading fascists in Russia, Alexandre Dugin, regularly consults with members of Putin’s inner circle. The mainstream news in Russia publishes anti Jewish screeds and fascist sentiment and philosophy is commonly presented in the Duma. Russian fascism isnt at the back doir knocking, theyve already taken over the house.
The reason Putin has been behaving as such is because these people are growing in power and regard him as being “too liberal” and too unwilling to do what is necessary.
Ukraine will have elections soon that will wash away any extremist element while in Russia the fascist and imperialist drums will only pound harder.
And you shouldn't, because when Russia invades a sovereign state, which happens to be the country of my birth, I'm as "biased" as they come.
I don’t see him setting fire to any buildings or people though.
Storming administration buildings isn't bad enough? and they did kill one person in Donetsk 2-3 weeks ago.
Big difference to January, is that in January those were Ukrainians storming Ukrainian buildings. But here, these are Russian nationals storming Ukrainian buildings. (It is well documented, citizens of the RF were posting pictures and videos of them raising the Russian flags over Kharkiv and Luhansk council buildings)
Which is one reason among many that this region and this hydra-headed basket of snakes is not worth a single American bootlace.
Agree, no American troops in Ukraine
If it's kowtowing to the official Kremlin line, which exaggerates the nationalist threat, paints the entire government and at least half of the Ukrainian population as Nazi, then yes.
and always from the standpoint that people are either for Ukraine or Russia
It is unfortunate that it's the "either-or" situation, but that's how it is for Ukrainians and pretty much every other Russian neighbour in Europe who cannot afford to look at it as an impartial observer.
American black-and-white equivalent is the problem of Islamic terrorism. An American is either behind his country, or he's not. There's no room for "enlightened" preachers talking about chickens coming home to roost.
but as most know, there are no good guys on either side in Ukraine
When Ukraine occupies Russia and oppresses its population for 300 years, commits a genocide or two, then we can compare the magnitudes of who is worse.
Besides what difference does it make if the Nazi's come also from other areas?
It's very "ballsy" (for the lack of a better word) when Russia, who is knee deep in hatred and intolerance towards other ethnicities accuses one of its victims, Ukraine, of the same crime. Recently, the Ukrainian Foreign ministry, as a retort to Russian accusations, brought up that 6 people have been killed in Russia since beginning of the year in a series of xenophobic attacks. If I recall, victims were from Central Asian countries and the Caucasus. In Ukraine - zero. (If you don't count one dead Crimean Tatar in the Russian "liberated" Crimea.)
However, just so you know the Pres. of Ukraine as well as varied Int'l diplomats are aware of the Nazi influence there and in the government.
I've been critical of Svoboda on this forum as well. Mykhalchyshyn and Myroshnychenko are an absolute embarrassment. Tiahnybok is a lightweight, all he can do is give anti-Russian speeches; Farion too, put a muzzle on all of them. Some are expecting that Svoboda might not even make it past the 5% threshold if elections were to be held. Now, they're just a liability who provide ammunition for the Kremlin.
One laughing stock does come to mind, certain former deputy speaker of the Russian Duma, good old Zhirik. Then there was Makashov, and that's just the obvious ones
Russian ministers under Putin have enough sense not to say the stuff on camera. They just support neo-nazi groups and send them into Ukraine
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