Feds Set Aside Habitat In Southwest For Jaguar [ Arizona and New Mexico ]

AP ^ | March 05, 2014 | Alexandra Olgin

[george76]

Federal wildlife officials are setting aside nearly 1,200 square miles in the American Southwest as critical habitat for the jaguar... Pima, Santa Cruz and Cochise counties in Arizona and Hidalgo County in New Mexico

...

The critical designation means anyone developing federal land in the area needs to consult the service to ensure it will not hurt the jaguar’s habitat

[xone]

but why is it a bad thing if they are put in a part of the country

Did you look at the map of the critical habitat recommendations? Ever heard of the towns in or near that area? Jaguars aren't mountain lions, they are more like african lions, no fear, a real apex predator like man. Add to that mix around a lot of people, not much game if they get established, and welcome to people getting killed on a regular basis. This same area has other species that are being re-established. What do yo think will happen to those species if the Jag gets back even to the level of mountain lions? Do you live where the gov't put wolves back? There is a reason they were hunted out, and it is just a valid today.

[depenzz]

I use to bow hunt the Gila Wilderness years ago. I flew into the Silver City airport (such as it was) and was picked up by the person I hunted with. He had a 40 acre ranch which I understand was pretty standard for that area. We would leave his ranch and head back into the Wilderness by horse back.

There were times when we would spot Mt Lions out in the open which was very rare. They were big beautiful cats and very hard on the elk herd. The person I hunted with had worked on a survey being done to see how much damage the cats were doing to the elk herd in the Gila.

Hunting there is an experience I will never forget, especially with the person I hunted with, he knew the Gila like the back of his hand. When the government allowed cattle grazing in the wilderness, he was a cowboy so he gained a wealth of knowledge. He was a super young man just starting out.

Looking at your map, it appears that the Gila Wilderness area is right in the middle of this land.

[xone]

With any luck, the mountain lions and lobos will eat them up,

A jaguar will go through those species like s&^t through a goose. The jaguar will kill and eat anything.

[Covenantor]

You can read about Alexander “Sasha” Siemel in his own book “Tigrero”, if you can find it, or in Peter Hathaway Capstick’s excellent, “Death in the Silent Places”

Capstick relates that the size of jaguars varies with their locales. A large jaguar in Mexico might weigh 200 lb while in the Mato Grosso that Siemel hunted 350 lbs and up defined the big cats.

The skin of one killed by Siemel was bigger than that of a large African male lion. Sheer size of the skin indicates a weight of well over 400 pounds.

One jaguar that almost killed Siemel measured out at nine feet and three inches and an estimated weight approaching four hundred pounds.

If you can snag either book you’re in for an exciting read.

[Covenantor]

They have, in the past, been found as far north as Arkansas in the early days of this Repulic.

[jazusamo]

The US F&WS like many other federal and state agencies have been infiltrated by enviro-nazis and many of those infiltrators are now in policy making positions.

If this trend is not reversed soon there’ll be no lands left for future development of natural resources and other new business and recreational facilities.

Of course with large increases in grizzly, wolf, cougar and now adding jaguars to the list of predator populations it will tend to make many families think twice about using the public lands available for recreation.

[Inyo-Mono]

The skin of one killed by Siemel was bigger than that of a large African male lion.

Is that the one he killed with a spear?

[Covenantor]

As xone indicated the jaguar is THE apex predator after grizzlies, in this hemisphere. There isn’t a single animal predator in its range that preys upon it with the potential for a “natural” balance.

Now, what do you suppose a fearless 200 lb carnivore has its menu? What critter exists in size and abundance to feed that hunger. Jack rabbits? While they are thought to be generally territorial ( in Brazil to such an extent that having found a cattle herd they protect it against all, including the cowboys and their dogs) paucity of food will lead them to rove past the magic government lines.

Hint, jaguars aren’t Whole Food shoppers, and unlike grizzlies they don’t eat berries.

[Covenantor]

The skin of one killed by Siemel was bigger than that of a large African male lion.

Is that the one he killed with a spear?

Capstick doesn't mention how that one was taken. The nine footer was taken with a spear, one of thirty or more taken that way. More than a hundred and ten were taken with a bow.

[Labyrinthos]

We don’t need a big cat that makes a puma look like a house cat. These are big very dangerous critters and the government was right to get rid of them.

An established population along the southwest border might prove as effective as a moat filled with alligators at keeping intruders out.

[Labyrinthos]

Thanks for the map. I’m guessing that once it is turned into a special habitat it will be tough to build things there. Like a fence and stuff.

From Wikipedia:

"Legal action by the Center for Biological Diversity led to federal listing of the cat on the endangered species list in 1997. However, on January 7, 2008, George W. Bush appointee H. Dale Hall, Director of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), signed a recommendation to abandon jaguar recovery as a federal goal under the Endangered Species Act. Critics, including the Center of Biological Diversity and New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, were concerned the jaguar was being sacrificed for the government's new border fence, which is to be built along many of the cat's typical crossings between the United States and Mexico.[88] In 2010, the Obama Administration reversed the Bush Administration policy and pledged to protect "critical habitat" and draft a recovery plan for the species. The USFWS was ultimately ordered by the court to develop a jaguar recovery plan and designate critical habitat for the cats.[79] On August 20, 2012 USFWS proposed setting aside 838,232 acres in Arizona and New Mexico—an area larger than Rhode Island—as critical jaguar habitat.[89] On March 4 2014 Federal wildlife officials set aside nearly 1,200 square miles along the U.S.-Mexico border as habitat essential for the conservation of the jaguar. The reservation includes parts of Pima, Santa Cruz and Cochise counties in Arizona and Hidalgo County in New Mexico.[90]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_%28animal%29

[Covenantor]

Here are some photos of Sasha after a hard days work

Notice the long bayonet. Capstick mentions that the speed of a jaguar attacking from tall grass precluded a bolt action follow up shot. Back to

the blade.

[Ditter]

I did not realize that Jaguars were bigger than mountain lions. My sister in law has a house in Montana that is located in a grizzley bear preserve. She has 12 acres out in the country with neighbors scattered around. The Grizzles, black bears and mountain lions come through her property regularly, so far no one has been killed.

[xone]

I did not realize that Jaguars were bigger than mountain lions.

It isn't just that they can get bigger than mountain lions, the point is their attitude. They kill and eat everything though for obvious reasons they like bigger game. You don't think mountain lions and real lions or leopards or tigers are alike do you? The jaguar belongs to that same genus, and acts like it does. It is a solitary hunter which is a good thing for its prey. It doesn't congregate or cooperatively hunt like lions. It is bigger than leopards in general but smaller than lions or tigers.

[TigersEye]

It is a great and very rugged area. I lived in a primitive cabin near Pinos Altos for three years. Loved it. My landlord was a nasty crazy #@^%$ but he had mules he used to hunt bear and lion in the Gila Wilderness and knew that country well too. Also made friends with a hard rock miner who had lived there all his life. He had no end of stories about the area.

Looks like all of the Gila and a lot more are included in their proposed jaguar habitat.

[Ditter]

Is the population able to stop the government from doing this?

[21twelve]

Thanks! Although I guess that the wilderness area will also prevent obama from setting up a shuttle service at the border, so that’s something.

[Tijeras_Slim]

In the top photo he’s holding S&W Registered Magnum # 10 which was presented to him by Daniel Wesson. < /gun trivia>

[familyop]

Hi, LJ! They’re not as heavy as 440 pounds in CO, either, but they’ve really been getting around. Don’t know their weight, but they range in height between about 28 to 36 inches high at the shoulder when on all fours and walking. There are gobs of them, though, leaving tracks and sign all over the place and more often being seen even during the day. It’s not from more people moving in around here (CO), because the local human population has been decreasing (foreclosures, regulations, high fuel prices, tax and fee hikes, environmentalism, animal protection law against agriculture, gun control, etc.).

[xone]

I’m sure it is a done deal. Folks in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming didn’t stop the wolves. Jaguars used to live there in AZ/NM, they could have them again with a much bigger human population.