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To: Marguerite
Hi!

I think, the Soviets are all bad. There are of course some accomplishments that have occurred despite them in the USSR, but the Soviet system is all, to the core irredeemably corrupt and evil -- the Evil Empire. EU may yet rise in its own evilhood, but at this point I fully understand the Ukrainian nation's decision to stick with Europe and not stay in Soviet Eurasia. It was not an easy decision for them, -- there were jokes about being stuck between a Moskal and a Gaystapo, but the final choice is there. I understand and applaud it. Maybe one day the Russian people, -- get their own maidan and be a great nation again. Now the last thing they should worry about is what Ukraine does with itself. Ukraine is gone from the Russian sphere for the foreseeable future. Russian is no longer a nation attracting peoples. Everyone fears them; no one respects them. Every other people under the Soviet system used the past 22 years to build up a national identity and to eradicate Sovietism in their lives. RF instead chose Stalinist nostalgia, military buildup and carbohydrate extraction economy. This is the outcome.

I understand that the Crimea and Donetsk-Kharkiv are historical Russian areas. If Putin did not invade with his unmarked little green men, there would have been a possibility of a plebiscite in a calmer environment. I don't think the Ukies should want an ethnically Russian, culturally Soviet appendage to deal with forever, either. Maybe one day a convincing plebiscite with reputable foreign observers can happen. It cannot happen so long as Putin is in power anymore. He is a discredited dictator, an aggressor, and a Soviet revanchist. Why would anyone trust for a second a "statesman" whose assessment of the 20 century is that the breakup of the USSR -- not the Second World War, not the murder of million innocents by Hitler, not the breakup, for example, of the Austro-Hungarian empire, but the fact that no one wants to be in the Soviet prison if they can help it -- is the greatest tragedy the world has known. He is a dangerous and delusional maniac with nukes.

Democracy is not my favorite form of government, but Democracy spoke in Ukraine. They have a legitimate government, -- the same Rada that had been elected alongside Yanukovith now impeached him. That possibly some regions would want maybe one day to secede is neither here or there now that we have a military confrontation engineered by Putin on the territory that does not belong to him.

67 posted on 03/06/2014 5:55:39 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
Ukraine, 2010 - the last legal presidential election. Red - votes for Timoschenko (45%) (most of the people speak ukrainian), blue - votes for Yanoukovich (48.5%)(most speak russian) . What happened in February in Kiev is that the people from the red colored areas overthrew the government elected by people from the blue areas. The first attempt to disfranchise and suppress the second!

The East and South-East areas are more densly populated, industrial and richer than the poor agricultural East. The nazi parties obtained up to 40% of votes in Lwov region. It's from there that their militarily trained militia came to Maidan, Kiev, to create havoc. Example: the Right Sector, a coalition of right-wing ultra-nationalist radicals. Their leader Dmytro Yarosh (L) during a rally in Maidan Square, Kiev February 21, 2014

Far-right group "Right Sector" train on Maïdan Square in central Kiev, January 25, 2014.

Anyone who watched this matter unfolding on world media would have seen live video streams of the right wing thugs at work. Including policemen being beaten to death and then being set on fire . I did see it. But the most important thing to keep in mind is the US, UK and EU have colluded to put in power a neo-nazi bunch of thugs. They were not elected, thus they are illegitimate.

In a democracy when you're dissatisfied with your elected leaders you impeach them or, you wait it out until the next election when you vote for the other guy. What's the argument in favor of the violent overthrow of a legitimately elected president? Who's next to be deposed in this way? The French president (17% of the population still trust him)? Canada Prime Ministre? Ialian president? Poland president? WHO? Barack Obama (38% trust him)?

US has repeatedly accused Russia of “invading” the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, ignoring the fact that an existing 1997 agreement between Russia and Ukraine allows Moscow to keep up to 25,000 Black Sea Fleet troops in the peninsula. Actually there are some 17,000 troops in Crimea.

70 posted on 03/06/2014 10:14:45 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: annalex

Watch what really happened on Maidan Square, in Kiev, Ukraine:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=58b_1392877307

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1di9r5_pravy-sektor-les-neonazis-ukrainiens-moteur-de-la-revolte_news?start=81

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1diadq_maidan-kiev-des-manifestants-pacifiques_news?from_related=related.page.int.behavior-meta2.049c50b121800bd05168f00671f97288139359884


71 posted on 03/06/2014 10:18:33 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: annalex
"I understand that the Crimea and Donetsk-Kharkiv are historical Russian areas. "

If “the people of Ukraine have the right to determine their own future”, Obama dixit , why did the US gave the opposition $5 Billion to use the force of arms to overthrow the freely-elected Ukrainian government ? New elections were set for early 2015. The US, and EU didn’t let them have elections, but funded an armed putsch.

The probable partition of Ukraine is yet to come


72 posted on 03/06/2014 10:26:20 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: annalex

Russia hits back at US ‘barefaced cynicism and double standards’ over Ukraine:

“We will only say, yet again, that we are dealing with unacceptable arrogance and a pretense of having a monopoly on the truth.” “What about the bombing of former Yugoslavia or the invasion of Iraq over a fabricated cause?” “On the pretext of providing security to Americans who simply happened to be in conflict zones, the US invaded Lebanon in 1958 and the Dominican Republic in 1965, attacked tiny Grenada in 1983, bombed Libya in 1986, and occupied Panama three years later.” “Still, they dare to blame Russia of ‘armed aggression’ when it stands up for its compatriots – who comprise the majority of Crimea’s population – in order to prevent ultra-nationalist forces from organizing yet another bloody Maidan.”

Last but not least, Obama should play nice to Putin. Don’t forget that every aspect of the manned and unmanned US space program – including NASA, other government agencies, private aerospace company’s and crucially important US national security payloads – are highly dependent on Russian rocketry and are therefore potentially at risk.

Americans are unaware of the extent to which the US and Russi space programs are inextricably interdependent. Since the forced retirement of NASA’s space shuttle program in 2011, America completely lost its own human spaceflight capability. So now the only ticket for astronauts to space and back is by way of the Russian Soyuz capsule.


73 posted on 03/06/2014 10:41:53 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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