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To: Tennessee Nana

Mormons were often on the receiving end of violent persecution before 1845, culminating in the battle of Nauvoo (Ill.) in 1844, eventually forcing the Mormons to flee to Utah. I am not promoting Mormonism but I do think people have a right to live as they please, especially after being forced to leave their homes at gunpoint. Finally, anti-polygamist sentiment was taken advantage of to gain followers for political gain during the formation of the Republican Party. Before placing exclusive blame on Mormons in Utah for violence, one question that seems relevant is to ask what is the proximate cause of the Mormons to be living in Utah in the first place.

I am all for people who get sexually and emotionally uptight about what other consenting adults do behind closed doors to voice their (sexually and emotionally uptight) opinions. The point at which the sexually and emotionally uptight people start to advocate or condone violence against some folks merely because those folks do not share their sexually and emotionally uptight views on what consenting adults choose to do in private is the height of irrationality and the point where i depart from them. For sexually and emotionally uptight people with violent intentions everywhere, the cliched adage “make love, not war” is IMHO still appropriate. And yet another adage is that those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.


31 posted on 02/23/2014 2:24:24 PM PST by SteveH (First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.)
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To: SteveH

Mormons were often on the receiving end of violent persecution before 1845
____________________________________

No they weren’t ...

The Mormons were the terrorists..

Joey Smith wanted to be a “second Mohammad”

in 1838 Joey Smith said that he would be like Mohammad when he converted the Christians to Mormonism or he killed them “It will be Joseph Smith or the sword”

the Christians defended themselves..

Joey Smith had his own private guerrilla army of 5,000+..

What town in the 1840s needed that many LEOs ???

the US army only had 8,000 for the whole country..

as the self crowned king of the Mormons and the mayor of Nauvoo and the Lt General of the Mormon army, Smith petitioned congress to arm and equip an army of 100,000 just for his own personal use..

read up about the Danites and the death threats from the Mormons to the citizens of Missouri..

Governor Boggs was forced to give the Mormons an ultimatum, live in MO peacefully or leave..

Lots of Mormons stopped killing and stealing from the Christians and settled down in MO and lived peaceful lives..

Nobody persecuted or molested them..

as for your magical 1845 date..read up about Mountain Meadows Massacre ..1857


53 posted on 02/23/2014 4:05:56 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: SteveH
Mormons were often on the receiving end of violent persecution before 1845, culminating in the battle of Nauvoo (Ill.) in 1844, eventually forcing the Mormons to flee to Utah.

This being the first sentence of your comment makes ones believe; perhaps; the MORMONs were innocent darlings that did NOTHING to bring these acts upon them.


No; they were NOT 'forced' to flee anywhere!

Plently of them stayed behind and FLOURISHED in Nauvoo.

They are STILL there!

56 posted on 02/23/2014 4:17:56 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SteveH
Before placing exclusive blame on Mormons in Utah for violence, one question that seems relevant is to ask what is the proximate cause of the Mormons to be living in Utah in the first place.

How about an internal POWER STRUGGLE over who was gonna lead the 'Saints' after JS got hisself all shot up!

57 posted on 02/23/2014 4:19:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SteveH

what is the proximate cause of the Mormons to be living in Utah in the first place.
_____________________________________

In Feb 1844 Joey Smith said he wanted to take the Mormons to Oregon or Texas or Mexico..

Too many Christians were moving in the Nauvoo IL area for his liking..

too many people who considered Smith the indecent rapist, murderer and thief that he was..

He wanted to move further away from civilization so he could practice his crimes of polygamy and murder and theft and cattle rustling and sedition against the United States government with out getting caught..

But he got himself killed in a jail break a few months later in June 1844 and Brigham Young took over as theocratic dictator of the Mormons...

Young stayed in Nauvoo for a time and finished the temple there,... then after selling the building to the Catholics, Young moved his followers to the Utah Territory just as Smith had wanted...

In 1847 Utah was made up of Eastern CA, Idaho, SW Wyoming so it covered a great deal of territory..

There in the Great Salt Lake region with its natural mountain border stockade walls Young was able to guard his secrets and polygamous colony and war against the United States government and entrapped any “gentile” (Christian in his snare and get rid of any rebellious Mormons..

In the next 30 years until his death in 1877 Young ordered the murder of at least 1,000 mostly innocent people..

Bodies of men women and children were discovered in the back yards of SLC for years after ...

Brigham Young was a dangerous deluded animal and his followers were as bad or nearly as bad..

Young ordered the crazed Porter Rockwell to assassinate Governor Boggs of MO and Boggs was shot in the throat in an ambush at his home and nearly died...

One of the dumb modern day excuses for polygamy in Utah was that there were many more females than males...

no there were not...

Like other western areas the men far out numbered the women...and as all the leaders of the Mormons had multiple wives by order of Young most of the women was the “wife” of a polygamist..

if a man arrived from Europe with only one wife he was ordered to take another...usually someones 14 yo daughter..

Joey Smith had at least 40 wives when he died in 1844 and Brigham Young had about 55 and 80 children...


65 posted on 02/23/2014 5:00:22 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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