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John McCain tells Ukraine protesters: 'We are here to support your just cause'
The Guardian (UK) ^ | 12/15/2013 | Guardian Staff

Posted on 12/15/2013 3:01:27 PM PST by mac_truck

Senator John McCain on Sunday told thousands of Ukrainian protesters camped on Kiev's main square that Ukraine's destiny lay in Europe and that it would make Europe better.

"Ukraine will make Europe better and Europe will make Ukraine better," he said to crowds protesting against President Viktor Yanukovich's U-turn in trade policy away from Europe towards Russia.

"We are here to support your just cause, the sovereign right of Ukraine to determine its own destiny freely and independently. And the destiny you seek lies in Europe," said McCain, a leading Republican voice on US foreign policy.

McCain is in Ukraine with a Connecticut Democrat, Senator Chris Murphy.

Speaking to CNN on Sunday, McCain said: “What we're trying to do is try to bring about a peaceful transition here, that would stop the violence and give the Ukrainian people what they unfortunately have not had, with different revolutions that have taken place – a real society. This is a grassroots revolution here – it's been peaceful except when the government tried to crack down on them, and the government hasn't tried that since.

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: gasputin; mccain; rino; russia; senatorjohnmccain; ukraine; we; whatsthiswecrap
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To: 1rudeboy

I haven’t seen TEA demanding barricading downtown DC, threatening to overthrow the government. I see them trying to win local elections and influence policy.


41 posted on 12/15/2013 3:57:20 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: mac_truck
You didn't answer my question, and cut the "as usual" crap.

Fact: Russia is meddling in Ukraine's affairs. You are "upset" that the EU is doing so. My question to you is, why do you fear one and not the other?

42 posted on 12/15/2013 3:58:07 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: American Constitutionalist

Why can’t McLame just STFU and go back to doing what does best - betraying America 24/7?


43 posted on 12/15/2013 3:58:26 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: American Constitutionalist
7 "Our Senators suck. Name 10 good ones."

1 Ted Cruz - TX

2 Jeff Sessions - AL
3 Chuck Grassley - IA
4 Jim Inhofe - OK
5 Tom Coburn - OK
6 Tim Scott - SC
7 Mike Lee - UT
8
9
10

... Anyone? Anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?

44 posted on 12/15/2013 3:58:53 PM PST by MacNaughton
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To: DesertRhino
These mass protests are fun, but there remains a question. If they are the clear majority, why don’t they win another election and do what they please?

Indeed.

The next presidential election is in 15 months and I suspect this 'spontaneous protest' is a result of the fact that the opposition is splintered and doesn't have a leader to coalesce around

45 posted on 12/15/2013 3:58:55 PM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: DesertRhino

Ok, I’ll grant you that. Not yet.


46 posted on 12/15/2013 3:59:39 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: mac_truck
'spontaneous protest'

Cue spooky, ominous music. [Russian]

47 posted on 12/15/2013 4:01:23 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: mac_truck

Can’t Putin put this sob out of his misery and spare us listening to his rants??


48 posted on 12/15/2013 4:03:44 PM PST by ZULU (Impeach that Bastard Barrack Hussein Obama the Doctor Mengele of Medical Care)
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To: DesertRhino
Well, maybe you will see that after a US dictator kills, say ten million Southerners, and then ships millions more ethnic Mexicans into their states in order to undermine their elections and institutions, because that is exactly what Stalin did to Ukraine.

Many of the "Ukrainians" voting in these elections are ethnic Russians specifically transplanted there in order to elect Russia's Running Dogs.

McCain is an effing jackass, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

49 posted on 12/15/2013 4:05:46 PM PST by FredZarguna (Wink wink. Nudge nudge. Know what I mean? Know what I mean?)
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To: ZULU
Lol...from your lips to God's ear.

McCain has overstayed his welcome in the Republican party by about six years, but still has the liberal media, the liberal GOP-e, and wealthy corporate sponsors in his corner.

It may in fact take an act of God to get him out of the US Senate.

50 posted on 12/15/2013 4:13:27 PM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck

Why is McCain even in the Ukraine?


51 posted on 12/15/2013 4:14:42 PM PST by 353FMG
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To: 1rudeboy

I agree. I will say that handled with a lot more finesse, I think we could have brought Russia on board with the West. The U.S.S.R. fell and we ignored it. That was the wrong thing to do IMO. We didn’t have to let Russian leaders dictate Western policy, but we could have tossed them enough bones to let them have dignity.

When that school was attacked, we could have gone out of our way to express how much we identified with the Russian people in their time of sorrow. We let that moment pass without capitalizing on it the way we should have.

Old historic reasons aside, Russia does have a lot more in common with Eastern Europe than it does with China.

We could play up some of their domestic victories in WWII. There’s a lot we could do without giving Russia anything tangible, and the West could bump up trade too.

It’s a shame we haven’t capitalized on this more IMO.


52 posted on 12/15/2013 4:18:41 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Reagan 1980: Shining city on a hill / RNC 2013: Dim flickering candle in a dark deserted dungeon.)
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To: mac_truck

Being close to McCain can be deadly.

53 posted on 12/15/2013 4:20:11 PM PST by McGruff (Obama lied. Period!)
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To: mac_truck

Whatever side John McCain is on, the other side is better.


54 posted on 12/15/2013 4:21:17 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

55 posted on 12/15/2013 4:23:44 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: FredZarguna

And if we are going back to the era of Stalin, then its just as valid to remember that the people of the EU did the same thing to Ukraine.

The answer of course, is to live in the now. Putin is not Stalin, and the EU is not Nazi. Both are far softer and modernized versions of their dark pasts. It wouldn’t hurt you to travel there.

The eastern and southern part of the country speaks Russian, and is culturally Russian and votes for Russo friendly candidates. The eastern half votes just as strongly for the candidates who love the EU. The Russo friendly voters have a slight edge normally. Don’t forget, Russian culture began in Kiev. Its a part of who they see themselves as. Laugh it off, but it’s real.

The answer there is that Ukraine should get a unique free trade status. Free trade with both, Russia and the EU. Make it to where the only way to trade between Russia and the EU tariff free would be to go through Ukraine.
After the abuse of Europe and Russia, Ukraine deserves better than being dominated by Russia OR the EU.

And such an agreement should forbid any expansion of the Russian navy base in Crimea, or any expansion of NATO into Ukraine. That is part of this calculus too. Russia doesn’t want NATO positioned 200 miles from Moscow, and the NATO EU crowd doesn’t have sense enough not to expand into those positions.


56 posted on 12/15/2013 4:25:17 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino
And if we are going back to the era of Stalin, then its just as valid to remember that the people of the EU did the same thing to Ukraine.

Please elaborate.

57 posted on 12/15/2013 4:31:10 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: DesertRhino
It wouldn’t hurt you to travel there.

You're quite presumptuous. I have been there. And I have friends and relatives there.

Your post ignores the fact that millions of the Russians who are there DON'T belong there to begin with, and millions more Ukrainians who should be there are dead because of the Russians who are.

Russia doesn’t want NATO positioned 200 miles from Moscow, and the NATO EU crowd doesn’t have sense enough not to expand into those positions.

Tough crap what Russia wants or doesn't want. If a sovereign Ukraine decides to be part of NATO, why would Russia have anything to say about it?

Your arrogance has betrayed your true sympathies. You don't see Ukraine as a sovereign country that should be able to determine its own choices. You want Ukraine to be a satellite of Russia, while you argue for "special status" as some kind of Finlandized neutral, really under the neo-Soviet thumb.

58 posted on 12/15/2013 4:37:34 PM PST by FredZarguna (Wink wink. Nudge nudge. Know what I mean? Know what I mean?)
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To: Christian1
Being an European I am amazed Ukraine wants to leave the Russian dictatorship to join the european dictatorship.

Well put. Though, I don't believe these protests are real.

I remember ranting and raving when Thatcher allowed Hong Kong to be turned over to "communist slavery". HA! Boy, was I wrong. They're still the freest people on Earth, while the Brits are a police state.

59 posted on 12/15/2013 4:49:35 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments (I remember when a President having an "enemies list" was a scandal. Now, they have a kill list.)
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To: mac_truck

Once again, if McCain is for it, I am not.

Just a red flag to live by.

Sorry the folks in Arizona don’t get it.


60 posted on 12/15/2013 4:57:26 PM PST by hadaclueonce (Because Brawndo's got electrolytes. Because Ethanol has Big Corn Lobby)
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