"What"?
Posted on 12/11/2013 5:51:00 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Editor's Note (1999): In his new book, A Republic, Not an Empire, Patrick Buchanan claims that as of mid-1940 Hitler "was driven by a traditional German policy of Drang nach Osten, the drive to the East." He did not want war with the West, insists Buchanan. (Pp. 268-69.) Why then did Hitler, following Pearl Harbor, declare war on the United States? Buchanan insists this was the irrational act of a madman. In fact, insists Gerhard Weinberg, it was consistent with an objective Hitler had long nourished.
It had been an assumption of Hitler's since the 1920s that Germany would at some point fight the United States. As early as the summer of 1928 he asserted in his second book (not published until I did it for him in 1961) that strengthening and preparing Germany for war with the United States was one of the tasks of the National Socialist movement. Both because his aims for Germany's future entailed an unlimited expansionism of global proportions and because he thought of the United States as a country which with its population and size might at some time constitute a challenge to German domination of the globe, a war with the United States had long been part of the future he envisioned for Germany either during his own rule of it or thereafter.
During the years of his chancellorship before 1939, German policies designed to implement the project of a war with the United States had been conditioned by two factors: belief in the truth in the stab-in-the-back legend on the one hand and the practical problems of engaging American military power on the other. The belief in the concept that Germany had lost the First World War because of the collapse at home -- the stab in the back of the German army -- rather than defeat at the front automatically carried with it a converse of enormous significance which has generally been ignored. It made the military role of the United States in that conflict into a legend. Believing that the German army had not been beaten in the fighting, Hitler and many others in the country disbelieved that it had been American participation which had enabled the Western Powers to hold on in 1918 and then move toward victory over Germany. They perceived that to be a foolish fable, not a reasonable explication of the events of that year. A solid German home front, which National Socialism would ensure, could preclude defeat next time; the problem of fighting the United States was not that the inherently weak and divided Americans could create, field, and support effective fighting forces, but rather that they were so far away and that the intervening ocean could be blocked by a large American fleet. Here were the practical problems of fighting America: distance and the size of the American navy.
To overcome these practical obstacles Hitler built up the German navy and began work on a long-range bomber -- the notorious Amerika Bomber -- which would be capable of flying to New York and back without refueling. Although the bomber proved difficult to construct, Hitler embarked on a crash building program of superbattleships promptly after the defeat of France. In addition, he began accumulating air and sea bases on the Atlantic coast to facilitate attacks on the United States. In April 1941 Hitler secretly pledged that he would join Japan in a war on the United States. This was critical. Only if Japan declared war would Germany follow.
As long as Germany had to face the United States essentially by herself, she needed time to build her own blue-water navy; it therefore made sense to postpone hostilities with the Americans until Germany had been able to remedy this deficiency. If, on the other hand, Japan would come into the war on Germany's side, then that problem was automatically solved.
Hitler was caught out of town at the time of Pearl Harbor and had to get back to Berlin and summon the Reichstag to acclaim war. His great worry, and that of his foreign minister, was that the Americans might get their declaration of war in ahead of his own. As Joachim von Ribbentrop explained it, "A great power does not allow itself to be declared war upon; it declares war on others." He did not need to lose much sleep; the Roosevelt administration was quite willing to let the Germans take the lead. Just to make sure, however, that hostilities started immediately, Hitler had already issued orders to his navy, straining at the leash since October 1939, to begin sinking American ships forthwith, even before the formalities of declaring war. Now that Germany had a big navy on its side (Japan's), there was no need to wait even an hour.
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This article is excerpted from Gerhard Weinberg's Germany, Hitler, and World War II (Cambridge University Press: 1995). It is reprinted with permission of the author and publisher and was reposted at TomPaine.com in 1999.
A little known fact is that Mexico had pilots who saw action on our side in the Pacific theater. Although they mostly flew support missions, one Mexican pilot lost his life in combat.
The Japanese Navy was extremely well trained. I remember Saburo Sakai pointed out just how strict they were with pilot training. Only around 2 percent made it through. He said later they were badly mistaken and they wished they had a lot of those they washed out back. In other words many of those who were washed out were still excellent pilots etc.
They were also very well trained in night fighting. The amazing thing is that by the battle of Midway we had caught up with them. That was only 5 months after Pearl Harbor.
Something everyone wants to forget is that South Africa and Rhodesia supplied a large number of pilots to the RAF, some of their best ones too.
"What"?
“If Japan had invaded Siberia at the same time the panzers were driving on Moscow, the USSR would have fallen and world history would be a lot different.”
Siberia would have swallowed the Japanese Army.
I saw a B&W photo of two GIs holding up a tailored German officer’s tunic showing the SS sleeve patch. The photo was taken during the hedgerow fighting not long after Normandy.
The thing is, they were in really cool camo fatigues. I had never seen them before, close to a Marine pattern from the Pacific theater. In fact it resembled the German ‘flektar’ so I’m wondering if they were having a problem confusing it with the Heine’s and went back to olive drab.
In any event, yeah you’re right. If ‘Bruno’ designed uniforms he’d have been eine gross Deutsche waffen fanboi.
Simply pinning down the Siberian divisions would have been sufficient.
In 1939 the evil and genocide had been happening in the Soviet Union. In an alternative history some have written the West helps Germany defeat the Soviets before defeating Germany.
You are correct on the change...Continental did the same thing back in the day...also, Clinton did the same thing for the post office by removing the clocks...wasn’t clinton...but the new postmaster general during his reign.
I wonder if my Dr. could learn scheduling from that.
I have a 10:00 appointment. I sit there 45 minutes waiting then they bring me in take a few tests such as temp, blood pressure etc. then I wait another 45 minutes.
Hitler had hopes of making peace with the British, with or without invasion. If he could have done this, then he would have had the Royal Navy and the navies of France and Italy at his disposal. Britain forestalled his having the French fleet but after the British held on, FDR provoked him with his undeclared naval war on Germany. After Pearl Harbour crippled out fleet, our naval strength in the Atlantic had to be reduced. Of course, had Hitler not declared war on the USA, then that would have happened anyway and perhaps even more, as ships were transferred from the Atlantic to be used against Japan. Hitler must have had a deeply flawed understanding of the latent power of the United States, its source maybe being his racism.
As discussed, Germany never developed much of a “strategic” ability other than the U-Boat. Some could argue the V-2 was the elemental stage of strategic weaponry but it was largely a theater weapon in German hands.
Early in the war Hitler decreed, due to the limits on aircraft manufacturing at the time in Germany, that only twin-engined bombers would be built since two twin-engined bombers could be built for every four-engined one. That “rule” existed for most of the time of the Reich. Hitler largely looked upon the Luftwaffe as airborne artillery for the Wermacht and thus a tactical force rather than a strategic one. The German navy was built more along the lines of it’s WW1 navy with emphasis, surface-ship wise, going to pocket battleships, battlecruisers, and the like intended for raiding rather than fleet offensive operations.
The Germans were also somewhat bad at intelligence gathering and were fooled many times by the Allies and Russians.
After Japan attacked the United States, the Russians withdrew many divisions from the East and sent the to help block Hitler’s advance on Moscow. They knew the Japanese did not have the resources to invade the USSR and conduct a war against the United States and occupy east Asia at the same time.
The only long range weapons able to hit the USA from Germany would have been the long-ranger missile that they were developing.to the east coast. As far as lomng term strategy, Germany didn’t have time to develop one before they had to go to war in 1939.
would have been correctly interpreted as a smokescreen.
Richard Sorge kept Stalin appraised.
Yea, they were lucky not to meet our Kentuckian turkey hunters on home turf.
First They Came for the Jews
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
Community and individuality are not opposites. People cannot survive on their own. When the odds are stacked against you, you must rally with the oppressed and hated.
When a growing oppressive regime is taking hold, you must act, otherwise you will soon face your enemy alone and hopeless.
Strength of community is a strength as much as individualism, as long you are willing to face weaknesses in your own community. Ignoring slacking values will mean that you will be rallied against by those you oppress.
Niemöller affirms we must rally against unhealthy organized regimes. We must also stay vigilant with those that appear to be good natured, as all organisation attracts corruption. Niemöller also warns us that if it is you who are corrupt, then you will face a stronger combined force of foe!
Vexen Crabtree
Yes, I also missed the part where they succeeded.
I’ve read, true I don’t know, that Hitler told his military leadership in the mid-1930s that they should expect war in Europe around 1943 and that they then set their development programs on a schedule according to that.
Except....except.....he then went off and started popping shots about 5 years early on them. Had the German armaments industry had another 5 years to to develop and grow, who knows how things might have played out differently?
Agreed.
Stalin held the troops in Siberia due to previous conflicts with Japan. Those troops remained in place until the British informed Russia that Japan was looking to start hostilities with the US.
That said, all the Japanese army needed to do was to play on Stalin’s fears and demonstrate hostility. The Japanese army may have gotten another pasting at the hands of the Russians, but the Siberian troops may have remained deployed in Siberia.
The Japanese army did not have the stomach for another war with the Russians and were on the record in saying so.
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