Posted on 11/27/2013 8:44:49 AM PST by Kaslin
What would you do next if you had successfully brokered a “Neville Chamberlin” style deal with a rogue state that wants to annihilate America and her Middle East allies? Well. . . You’d downgrade diplomatic ties with the Vatican, of course. At least, that’s what you would do if you were working in the Obama White House. The White House has recently announced that they will shut down the US Embassy to the Holy See, and relocate it to a “safer” location on the grounds of the American Embassy in Italy.
Officially, the US is explaining the relocation effort as a security measure in reaction to the attack on the American consulate in Benghazi. . . Because, ya know, those crazy Vatican Catholics are a naturally militant bunch. Heaven forbid someone makes an anti-Christian movie! Whoa, the whole place could erupt into a deadly string of mass prayers and forgiveness! (Ahem… Sarcasm.)
The decision on part of the US Administration to move the American Embassy is being interpreted by many as a slap in the face to the Vatican. At the very least, it is likely to produce a tension that will lead to a deterioration of US/ Vatican communication and cooperation.
Adding to the suspicion that America’s decision is primarily political, and not based in security concerns, is the fact that the current Embassy has state of the art security. According to former US Ambassador James Nicholson, the current location is highly secure, and pivotal to continuing relations with the Holy See.
Besides: We’re talking about the US Embassy. . . In Vatican City. It’s not as if we’re discussing an un-fortified compound in the heart of a Libyan war-zone. (Cough*Benghazi*Cough) Here’s a solution: add a couple more Marines, and maybe borrow the Pope-Mobile for high profile visitors.
Suggesting that Obama is intentionally downgrading US/ Vatican ties due to some resentment toward Catholic policy would almost seem too petty to contemplate; until it is put into a broader perspective. The Holy See has proven, throughout the years, to be a monumental asset in world affairs. Our relationship with the Vatican aids in humanitarian missions, peace brokerage, and international trade with governments of all religious affiliations.
According to Nicholson, “This is anything but a good time to diminish the stature of this post. To diminish the stature of this post is to diminish its influence.” In an age where Obama’s allies in the Middle East include Taliban rebels and Al Qaida operatives, the timing seems even more precarious. When Iran feels emboldened on the world stage, when Israel feels threatened, and when Christians are finding the Middle East to be an ever-increasingly dangerous corner of the world, one would think the US Government would be bolstering its relationship with God’s emissary.
But. . . Maybe that’s the problem. Perhaps Obama is just a bit upset that the Catholic world headquarters hasn’t yet offered universal contraception to its female members. Or perhaps he’s a little unnerved about their use of the word “Christmas.” Or, maybe, he’s just feeling a bit irritated that the Pope consults God every day, rather than the White House.
Whatever the reason, the end result is the same: A sizeable devolution of US/ Vatican ties. Not to mention a marginal political fallout here at home. After all, Christians are less than pleased with the details of Obamacare, the repeal of “don’t ask don’t tell”, and the White House’s general disregard for religious liberty. So… What the heck? Go ahead and insult the Pope while you’re at it.
Furthermore, the move illustrates our President’s perspective on “right” and “wrong” when it comes to world events. It says something about the Administration’s world view when they champion an Iranian Nuclear deal that lifts sanction and emboldens our enemies the very same week they withdraw diplomatic ties from the Vatican.
At least When Neville Chamberlin was trotting around Europe declaring “peace in our time”, he was primarily naïve. That’s not necessarily the case with our current leader of appeasement.
Of course, then again, maybe the President is just trying to be fair. Maybe he didn’t want Israel to feel like the only religious sovereign-state to be snubbed by the US this week.
Sure. Those Europeans are prone to riot, invade embassies and kill diplomats and US military personnel, especially when PO’d about a you tube video. Happens all the time. Opposite of the piece-loving, tranquil temperaments of Libyan and Egyptian nationals./s
After Israel, Rome is the second target for Iranian nukes ...
Read Revelation 13. The Antichrist will be immensely popular with the entire world and all who are not saved will worship him. I think Obama’s popularity has already peaked, and even then, he wasn’t all that.
The Vatican wouldn’t say anything about this one way or the other, regardless of the opinion of the Pope or anybody else involved.
There may be practical reasons, but since the current building was just reinforced a couple of years ago, I doubt it.
I still see it as a message. I agree that the essential problem is the very vague “deal” with Iran - which seems to give them everything they want, and to us, nothing - but I can’t see that folding embassy Vatican into a room at embassy Rome - even with a separate entrance - is anything but downgrading.
“Suggesting that Obama is intentionally downgrading US/ Vatican ties due to some resentment toward Catholic policy would almost seem too petty to contemplate;”
Too petty to contemplate, like shutting down national parks, closing inns and ousting people from their homes just to inflict pain?
Safety isn't an issue. The Vatican embassy is a secure as the Italian one -- possibly more so. You have to understand the subtleties of international diplomacy. This is a slap in the face to the Vatican and to Catholics the world over, and it is INTENDED to be nothing less than that. Quit averting your eyes and see hedonist, left-wing, evil for what it is.
We have real things to criticize Obama (and his legions of supporters) over.
If there wasn't such thing as our own embassies coming under attack, being now increasingly under threat (how much so, possibly, in Italy -- I cannot say for any certainty) , then this could be seen as deliberate snub, perhaps. As it is...let's not get our facts wrong, and look foolish while doing so.
Obama has seemed to have mastered an art of "baiting" while combining that with deflection, and an easy setting up grounds for his critics to be criticized as extreme -- if not nutty.
Look at the birth certificate goings-on. Those are STILL continuing, with Obama and Co. getting away with not having settled it honestly and forthrightly from the beginning (he could have spent 20$ or so for a copy, himself) but chose to string it all out, allowing the critics who hounded him into looking like extremists, thus mollifying those among his own supporters who may have doubts as to other things...for the thinking goes among them...anything the slightest "Fox News" is mis-info, therefor anything critical of Obama is a lie, blah, blah.
So--- the Obabamtrons bait and feed, hoping for over-reaction they can pull out like yet another rabbit out of a hat, when the going get's too close to focusing on what's really going on. In this instance --- focus can shift from dealings with Iran, to something allegedly "against" the Catholic church -- and get people talking about the latter, rather than the former.
Then, when they can get people to drag the "church" into it (not limited to the RCC, mind you) when it comes to the ongoing discussions concerning ObamaCare forcing everyone to pay into a system which not only "provides" birth control pills (why no deductible for those things? you tell us, Democrat Naral types) but the REAL stinker -- paying for abortions themselves(!) red alert(!), this is the part they don't want to talk about, it's called "women's reproductive health", instead.
See how it works? Once we see it better, we may have better chance of not letting the discourse be so easily so perpetually defined and controlled by DemoRat operatives and sympathizer/useful, over-educated but still-- idiots.
We have to be smarter. We need to learn how to be cunning, even manipulative, while remaining harmless as doves, ourselves.
The Clown hates: Christianity, the Constitution, and (free market) Capitalism.
Indeed, you have to be smarter.
You have to treat Obama as Adolf should have been treated in 1938. If not, welcome to the next holocaust.
Personally, I think you’ll go straight into it while bleating “thank you, Lord Obama”.
Good read on our nutjob leader:
Why Obama Lies
Another ventured on this thread -- that there will be or is a separate building, on 'Embassy Rome' property. I don't know if that is exactly true, for this Washington Post article, U.S. move of Vatican embassy draws fire in the opening sentence, says "into" the larger Embassy, with critics of the move characterizing it as making Embassy Vatican into "the step-child" of Embassy Rome. Perhaps...but not as a certainty, for there will still be a separate Ambassador, retaining the same staff numbers as before (for now, anyway).
But you say you can't see this as "anything but downgrading" ??? Nothing else -- that has to be the primary reason ? Maybe, but the other reasons (like safety) have possibly their own foundations to stand alone upon.
Still, a few conservative voices have expressed sentiments such as you have. I'm concerned about such expressions back-firing on conservatives, if they go too far, or have us change focus, arguing too much concerning "perceptions".
...can't be seen as "anything but downgrading";
To a city-state that is itself encompassed by a city, and that city-state which itself does not grant or allow much in the way of official diplomatic "territory" of other nations, upon it's own territory. Uh, right.
Honestly, there is of course, rational reason or excuse for the Vatican not ceding any territory within it's own territory (if but only a building, or a city block) for the Vatican can or could scarcely afford space for diplomatic offices from others to itself on it's own smallish territory --- allowing others some of their own nation's sovereignty inside Vatican City, after the same customs most all other nations extend towards other nations, along line of an American consulate being seen as "American" soil, wherever in the world that consulate be situated.
We could be reading too much into this, if it is being taken as deliberate snub. Careful now...or even this, even if it was something of a sub, will be used against us in on amongst the 'talking heads'. see #38 for brief sketch of how they get conservatives to all but self-destruct.
The downsizing of diplomatic mission to the Holy See, is comprised of what, exactly? Of moving from a building which was situated away from the U.S. diplomatic mission to Italy, to consolidate upon the same or adjacent property?
There is still an independent Ambassador to the Vatican. Will he be any more under or beholden to U.S. Presidential attache' now, than he was before? Ambassadors do take orders, you know?
About the only possible gripe is that Ambassador to Italy may try to throw their personal weight around (or worse, the "staff" may try) with Ambassador to the Vatican (and that "staff"). If such as that does not occur -- where is the "snub", but chiefly only in the minds of those seeing only outwards form, for other than physical location -- what exactly is being now changed?
Just -- "wow". The Vatican is "sensitive" to image, like some secular head-of-state may be? this would have the DU'ers rolling in the aisles, and perhaps justifiably so, but worse, just make it that much easier to paint opponents of the ever increasing State-ism to be religious kooks not worthy of having fair hearing, not worthy of having their voices heard (that could be both yours, and mine) for mistake of
An antidote perhaps? Remember-- Christ indicated that His kingdom, was not of this world. The Obama's of the world can't change that, any more than a string of Napoleons changed that aspect.
Makes sense. There are Catholic hospitals, clinics and schools. They don’t want to fund the planned hoods.
Add me to this list. I am convinced that 0dumb0 is evil personified, he is the anti-Christ & child of his father, the Devil, who is the father of all lies. May 0dumb0 & his phat ass wife & entire spectrum of voters who voted for this RAT bastard commie muslim pig roast for eternity in the Lake of Fire!
There is also a single “Man of Sin” (sometimes called “Man of Lawlessness”) who is also referred to as the “Son of Perdition” (2 Thess 2:3). Most believe this is also THE last and most important Anti-Christ...a single person all antecedents of which were merely imperfect prototypes.
Why the fighting words? I dare you say the same to my face.
Otherwise;
Are you so dense you don't understand what I'm talking about, here in several comments?
That's what I'm talking about, but were past 1938 in a sense, even though this is about how to deal with him and his legions of [rhetorical] brownshirts...
Otherwise, go ahead, put the briefcase which will suddenly expand right next to where he'll be standing. They could have done that in '38, if someone thought it out, then.
But mind the heavy table legs, and stick with the package until the moment arrives, so that it doesn't become moved too far away to be effective -- thus BACKFIRING in ways strengthening Adolf even more (at that point).
Our side could use worthy martyr too. With the trouble being there...is that saints and martyrs are frequently mistaken for being criminals, even among their own, until years and years later. And if Obama meet accident -- then who would come riding to town to save the day -- other than the Hildabeast. (in fact, if anything "happens" I would suspect that gang, even as the ChiTown mob has much displaced the most sycophantic of the Crinton-crime syndicate).
Yes, there are many anti-christs, but there is still one single Anti-Christ who will be revealed when the Rapture takes place and the restraining influence of the Hinderer (Holy Spirit)is removed. At that day, the son of perdition will be revealed. The Holy Spirit will minister as he did in the Old Testament where he comes for a specific ministry or purpose through an individual or indivdiuals for a specific ministry.
What nation in all the world has an embassy of their own "at the Vatican"?
The United States never did, but had embassy, (since 1984) to the "Holy See" as it is also called, located off-premises, of Vatican City, itself.
Time for sniping has ended and activism begins. By printing up FR postings that apply to certain groups and leafleting their parking lots they use to meet for any reason.
Obamacare Ruling: Religious Employers MUST Provide Birth Control Coverage
Obama: ‘If Catholics (and Protestants) Have Their Schools ... That Encourages Division’
Common Core: A Threat To Catholic Education
WHAT DID YOU EXPECT ?
This address to the Irish accompanied by his usual entourage of hundreds made during his stay in europe for the June 2013 Summit 8 conference might make it to the national scene but our media will sit on it.
The democrat party after taking complete control of everything instument of govermnet the Presidentcy, House and Senate in 2008. Lost the House in 2010 thanks to the opposition by loosely organized groups known as the tea party later characterized by members of the administration as “terrorists”. But demonstrated it was completely taken over by socialists when the word and reference to GOD was removed at their 2012 national convention. A fact that went un-noticed, un-touched, un-mentioned, and un-used by the RINOS and GOPES (GOP elite snobs) during that presidential 2012 election and now who are still running todays Republican party.
Even after reconsideration the decision was derided by the majority because it was re-installed over a majority voice vote supporting the removal.
If this were a political party in a parlimentary system it would be hyphenated and would (and should despite the difference) be refered to as the Demo-Com party. While the RINOS and GOPES can’t even call them “socialist.”.But at least they claim a belief and many support the sanctity of life and Christian/Catholic schools if they don’t or lie,but at least you can give the RINOS and GOPES the boot..
But any Catholic or Christian claiming to belong to the “demo-com” party is a hyprocrite and should be confronted, isolated, and treated with disgust and distain. It’s time to understand and face the facts that everything that has been changed since that time including discarding the traditional concept of what democrats were. They have come out of the closet and government is in your face, your house,your religion,and your pocketbook....
Time for sniping has ended and activism begins. By printing up FR postings that apply to certain groups and leafleting their parking lots they use to meet for any reason.
Obamacare Ruling: Religious Employers MUST Provide Birth Control Coverage
Obama: ‘If Catholics (and Protestants) Have Their Schools ... That Encourages Division’
Common Core: A Threat To Catholic Education
WHAT DID YOU EXPECT ?
This address to the Irish accompanied by his usual entourage of hundreds made during his stay in europe for the June 2013 Summit 8 conference might make it to the national scene but our media will sit on it.
The democrat party after taking complete control of everything instument of govermnet the Presidentcy, House and Senate in 2008. Lost the House in 2010 thanks to the opposition by loosely organized groups known as the tea party later characterized by members of the administration as “terrorists”. But demonstrated it was completely taken over by socialists when the word and reference to GOD was removed at their 2012 national convention. A fact that went un-noticed, un-touched, un-mentioned, and un-used by the RINOS and GOPES (GOP elite snobs) during that presidential 2012 election and now who are still running todays Republican party.
Even after reconsideration the decision was derided by the majority because it was re-installed over a majority voice vote supporting the removal.
If this were a political party in a parlimentary system it would be hyphenated and would (and should despite the difference) be refered to as the Demo-Com party. While the RINOS and GOPES can’t even call them “socialist.”.But at least they claim a belief and many support the sanctity of life and Christian/Catholic schools if they don’t or lie,but at least you can give the RINOS and GOPES the boot..
But any Catholic or Christian claiming to belong to the “demo-com” party is a hyprocrite and should be confronted, isolated, and treated with disgust and distain. It’s time to understand and face the facts that everything that has been changed since that time including discarding the traditional concept of what democrats were. They have come out of the closet and government is in your face, your house,your religion,and your pocketbook....
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