Does The Book of Job Say that Satan Visits Heaven?

[ComtedeMaistre]

One of the strangest parts of the Bible is Job 1:6

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+1&version=GNT

[When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. The Lord asked him, “What have you been doing?”]

This part suggests that Satan visits heaven. Satan, of course, began as a full time resident of heaven, before he was expelled from heaven. It seems that he retains visiting rights.

It is this passage that led Mormons to teach that Jesus and Satan started out as brothers. We do know that Lucifer/Satan was the most senior of the Angels, with more seniority than Arch-Angels Gabriel and Michael. He was effectively Number 3 in heaven after God and Jesus.

Can any freeper Bible experts explain what Satan was doing in heaven, when unrepentant human sinners whose sins are much less than Satan's, are going straight to hell without a chance of seeing heaven?

[count-your-change]

Not to me it doesn’t. It sounds like the angels were reporting on their activities and this satan had been making accusations about humans. Hence the question, “Have you considered my servant Job?”.

Revelation describes Satan being tossed out of heaven and barred from access but Satan is never said to be in hell in the Scriptures.

[jjr153]

Here are 2 sites about the history of Satan.

http://www.markbeast.com/satan/history-of-satan.htm

http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/made_satan

[coincheck]

There are no missing pieces from the Bible. The message that is held with in is about the coming of Jesus and the redemption of man to God by the sacrifice of His son in our place to fulfill first the law second the penalties of violating that law.

You ignore the evidence that is present and establishes the Old Testament. Before 1947, the oldest Hebrew copies of the Old Testament were dated to about 916AD, once the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, a copy of the entire book of Isaiah was found. First it was dated to about 125BC, then they compared what it said to the Masoretic Hebrew text that had been the standard for many years. The only thing they found between the DSS and the MHeb text was the spelling of names and punctuation. The time difference between those manuscripts is a little over 1,000yrs.

Those differences do not in any way change the revelation or meaning of what is written. The rest of the Bible is as dependable. By making those accusations you are saying that God is not able to keep His work right and true down through the ages. I would refer you to 2Tim 3:16-17 and chew on those words for awhile. Jesus also said that Heaven and Earth will pass away, but His words will never pass away. :)

[mdmathis6]

Salvation was never for the angels, indeed the whole salvation plan “is a mystery,; one that the angels themselves long to look into” but instead was for humans. The “once saved always saved” meme is a non sequitor in this discussion of Satan.

[Iscool]

They occupy hell and God is happy with that.

That's an unbiblical myth...

[hecticskeptic]

Satan was a fallen angel, he was booted from heaven This puts the lie to the idea “Once saved, always saved” heh” Good point, I’m going to remember that! I never bought the once saved always saved thing, btw. Kind of like ‘I can do anything I want and it’s alright’ idea. No.

No so fast. Who’s to say who is saved and who is not? Here’s a few verses for you to consider…. Ps:44:21: “Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart”… and Lk:16:15: “And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.”

The bottom line is that people can fool others and even themselves with regards to who is saved and who is not…. but God can’t be fooled. Now, who can say whether Satan was ever saved? The evidence is that he never ever was….

[Joshua]

Actually, the story of the angels going into rebellion comes from the book of Enoch, not from the Bible.
************************************************
Jesus claimed that Satan was a liar from the beginning and no truth was ever found in him. (paraphrase). Kind of contradicts the “Satan was this beautiful angel. I have read opinions that claim the mis-interpretation of Satan in the “God inspired AV 1611 King Jimmy” is the reason for this contradiction. No interest to debate anyone on it. Commentary can be found online or anyone looking .

[Cvengr]

Criminal Fallen angels, aka demons, with bodies are chained in Tartarus. Fallen angels without bodies still roam.

Lucifer upon his fall was known as Satan (HaSatan).

He has 3 falls recorded in Scripture. The fall to Earth, the fall in the Garden, and the fall into the Lake of Fire. Each was a situation of perfect environment. So, if anybody seeks perfect environment as a solution for sin, they have 3 cases overturning that hypothesis.

[verga]

BTTT

[HarleyD]

I wouldn't classify myself as a biblical expert but please note the text:

Job 1:6-7 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, "From where have you come?" Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it."

It doesn't state that they were in heaven. The "sons of God" is referred to as holy men meeting together. We know Satan was in the Garden, roams around the earth, tempted Christ, etc. It is most likely the Jewish religious leaders of the time were meeting and Satan attended. Whether God was there physically or spiritually is unclear except that He addressed the situation.

This is what Matthew Henry has to say about the issue:

I. Satan among the sons of God (Job_1:6), an adversary (so Satan signifies) to God, to men, to all good: he thrust himself into an assembly of the sons of God that came to present themselves before the Lord. This means either, 1. A meeting of the saints on earth. Professors of religion, in the patriarchal age, were called sons of God (Gen_6:2); they had then religious assemblies and stated times for them. The King came in to see his guests; the eye of God was on all present. But there was a serpent in paradise, a Satan among the sons of God; when they come together he is among them, to distract and disturb them, stands at their right hand to resist them. The Lord rebuke thee, Satan! Or, 2. A meeting of the angels in heaven. They are the sons of God, Job_38:7. They came to give an account of their negotiations on earth and to receive new instructions. Satan was one of them originally; but how hast thou fallen, O Lucifer! He shall no more stand in that congregation, yet he is here represented, as coming among them, either summoned to appear as a criminal or connived at, for the present, though an intruder.

[hecticskeptic]

Restrained? Confined? Mark 6:7 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits……12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent. 13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

Obviously demons are around us and are not always contained... otherwise, why would it have been necessary for them to be cast out in these verses? Worth always to remember that prayer accomplishes much and perhaps the most unseen power associated with prayer is the short leash that it puts demons on. Yes they are out there and all around us but it’s the prayer of God’s people which holds them at bay. Godly people have the power over demons... not the inverse of that. James 5:16……”The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”

[captmar-vell]

I’m not sure there is such a thing as a ‘bible expert’ as we can learn something new every time we open it, but I’ll share what I believe,

The book of Job is about evidencing what faith is (to us), despite how everything and everyone in this world would have you believe something natural over what the spirit reveals, trust him always and he will bring you in,

As to Satan being able to stand in Heaven, yes, God gave Adam legal authority over the Earth, who in turn gave that authority to Satan. When the Earth or those in it are being discussed, Satan can stand and accuse those operating in his dominion (Christians)

Jesus gave his bride authority to bind ‘principalities and powers’ on this Earth, (though how many and how often any claim this authority is questionable) notwithstanding, Satan has legitimate authority on this physical Earth until the time of the end, and (I believe) until three very specific conditions are met and then violated by the nations under Satan’s influence,

1 - a - Israel restored, b - Jerusalem restored, together providing the two conditions in Daniel Chapter 9 to count the time (determined) 70 weeks or 490 years. 434 years were counted at the cross, 49 years were accepted by Jesus but rejected by Israel and instead brought the Gospel to us, it (and he) is the Jubilee, leaving 49 years (a Jubilee) and then the final seven years remaining which (today) we all hear so much about called ‘the tribulation’ (434 + 49 + 7 = 490 years)

2 - A Jubilee is acknowledged in Heaven following the conditions being met, (that is) met precisely per Leviticus Chapter 25: “when you come into the land that I shall give you.. “ then count seven times seven years (49 years) and only our Father in Heaven can know when this is acceptable,

3 - The covenant is broken, hindered, encumbered in some manner between this world and a restored Israel via an agreement, that is Israel is divided, Jerusalem is divided or both, the restoration is being undone, Satan is seeking to change the times and seasons, to extend his ownership outside the limiting Holy mechanisms of the Laws and Ordinances enacted on the Earth, the very ones which provided for the coming of the Messiah and the punitive measures of the transgression, and then the second restoration itself,

Its the attempted undoing of that authority, the breaking of the ‘Everlasting Covenant’ (see Isaiah Chapter 24) that brings the time of the end, this is what Jesus called the ‘Great Tribulation’ and it comes (I believe) as whats being adjudicated beginning in Revelation Chapter 4, where the “court will sit” (see also Daniel Chapter 7) and where Jesus takes the scroll (title deed) from the right hand of the Father. He assumes legal ownership over the Earth,

Jesus as the second Adam, returning bodily when the fullness of time is reached (a Jubilee) coming again as the only one able to redeem from the rightful owner (God) the whole of creation, granted under the Law as a Kinsman of Adam (a man) see the Book of Ruth, Jesus is our Boaz, the Church is the Bride and Noami is Israel,

Jesus is taking authority using the very Laws and Ordinances which were implemented upon the physical Earth which allowed him to come in a Holy manner (in the flesh) then be rejected by Israel (flesh), that purchased the gentiles into the Kingdom of Heaven (Spirit) and then ultimately providing the same mechanism to redeem the physical creation during the restoration of all things, (the Jubilee)

Peter speaks of Jesus:
“Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” Acts 3:21 (a Jubilee)

“For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.” Isaiah 63:4 (a Jubilee)

Satan has access to Heaven until he attempts to break that restoration, which is tied to the physical land as much as it is to the people (Israel) following the (second) restoration under the very same Law that took them away as with a flood in 70 AD,

Israel at the time of the end will make a covenant with death, Satan is a liar and usurper, the Great Tribulation begins on the Earth soon after,

“And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; . .” Isaiah 28:18

At this time the war in Heaven begins and Satan is thrown out (forever) by the Archangel Michael,

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceive the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: “

“for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, “

“which accused them before our God day and night.”

“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.” Revelation 12:7-12

[TalBlack]

I've got a short story wherein Satan is called to Heaven to collect sinners who, having been given a brief glimpse of the Face of God (and of Heaven in the back round) during their Judgment are taken thence to Hell.

Through these vignettes we learn that God prizes Powerful Humor and that He misses Satan's abilities in this regard. All and sundry are surprised at God's assertion that Satan is "as funny as Moses" (no one is as funny as Moses) Satan misses the Realms of Bliss and is horrified at the class of person with which he has damned himself to eternity ("they're stupid and mean and OBSESSED with poopoo and peepee and they're NOT funny!"). God misses Satan and wants him back in Heaven. Satan knows this and entreats Him. God stipulates that Jesus must testify for him-his name must be in The Book. Satan harangues Jesus incessantly but Jesus just laughs at him, occasionally getting angry and banishing him to his hell with a violence that we don't often associate with the Prince of Peace. During a latter harangue Jesus seems to be softening, eyeing Satan intently, then proposing that there may be a way... Satan is eager and Jesus proposes: "Do 5000 years...of life on the earth!". "5000 years of doing My Will, of preaching the Gospel in the face of the hellstorm that you yourself have led". "5000 thankless years of deathless flesh without so much as one tiny backslide." Jesus can't forget the souls Satan beguiled away from Him and thinks He has found a way to torment the slightly, slightly, ever so slightly shallow Satan. Along the way Moses comes by and happens to riff on the 40 years. To my mind it is astonishing that Satan could possibly be that funny...

[Charles H. (The_r0nin)]

Early Judaism did not have an “evil” force (i.e. the “devil”) that struggled against God, primarily because in it God was seen as opposed by the other gods of the heathens surrounding the Israelites (the Mosaic admonition to have “no other gods” before him was most likely a literal statement. Many parts of the Old Testament read like the other gods are both real and in conflict with the God of Israel). As such, Satan (literally “the accuser”) in the Old Testament was God’s attorney general, the subordinate power tasked with bringing the transgressions of God’s people to his attention.

By the time of late antiquity, the Hebrews of Israel had been exposed to various Eastern/Persian philosophies (through the Roman occupation) that gained popularity in the hellenistic world previously. These philosophies gave rise to religions of dualism (culminating in Manicheism shortly after Christ), and the Jews of Jesus’ time had been heavily influenced by these ideas. Between the time of the OT’s writing and the time of the New Testament, Satan had evolved from a servant of God into a dualistic opponent (but without the equal power that most dualistic or Manichean deities have). So the Satan of the New Testament is not easily reconciled with the story of Job.

The problem is that the Bible exists to teach wisdom and God’s will, and modern readers expect it to be a logical narrative like a history text-book. This leads to various intellectual gymnastics to make various parts of a document written over millennia fit seamlessly (to our eyes), rather than an appreciation of Job as God’s promise to never desert those who obey and love him.

[Vigilanteman]

To your evil power crazed liberals, dystopia is utopia. People needing to petition them for any crumbs of favors which fall from the table of big government is their ultimate power trip.

[Olog-hai]

The word “devil” is derived from Greek “diavolos”, which also means “accuser”.

Satan was always an evil entity in the Old Testament right from his appearance as the serpent in Genesis 3, although not consistently called by that name. In Isaiah 14:12, he was called “Heylel ben Shachar” (literally “bright [or howling] one, son of the dawn”; translated into “Lucifer qui mane oriebaris” in the Vulgate); in Ezekiel 28:12, he is called the “king of Tyre” (note the attributes that follow). There has been no change.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

This is against the King of Tyrus, but as you read, you see this is really looking past Tyre to someone else.

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Then there is this earlier prophecy:

1 Kings 22

King James Version (KJV)

17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the Lord said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.

18 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?

19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

[JDoutrider]

mrkr

[Faith65]

Bookmark

[HurriKane]

Thank you for the book reference, I’ve been curious about Enoch, and I’ve read other “extra-biblical” books, which have greatly deepened my faith...
Blessings, HK