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Pensions: 'I Am A Retired Detroit Cop. I Hope This Will Not Happen To You.'
DeadlineDetroit ^ | Oct 30, 2013 | Brian Lawrence

Posted on 11/07/2013 2:36:09 PM PST by bkopto

I am a retired Detroit Police Officer and this is my story. I hope this will not happen to you.

I joined the Detroit Police Department in 1986. At that time the city had an agreement with the federal government that made Detroit Police officers ineligible for social security and Medicare. We were led to believe that this was to our benefit. We were told that we would be taken care of upon retirement with a pension and health care.

Today, this is no longer true. Because of the bankruptcy filing by the city of Detroit, the Emergency Manager has stripped me and my fellow officers of our health-care coverage and is trying to void our pension income.

I spent more than 23 years with the Detroit Police Department as a patrol officer. I patrolled the streets of Detroit. I answered calls for service. I did not have an administrative job, nor was I an executive. I have seen some really horrific scenes and fought against the worst violent acts that most people cannot even imagine.

I have uncovered babies from shallow graves, responded to domestic-violence incidents, armed robberries, and murder scenes. I have discovered heads blown off, double ax murders, and mummified bodies in abandoned buildings.

I have saved people from being killed. I have found lost children and returned missing relatives to safety when they wandered, were carjacked, or were taken away by force. And I have come into your home or the home of someone you know when help, safety, and security were needed to help the citizens of Detroit.

I have lost more friends in the line of duty than anyone should.

I have been shot at more times than you can count; and

I have been run over.

I loved my job.

In 1996, I was on my way back to the First Precinct after patrolling the streets. I proceeded through a green light near the precinct and was struck by a vehicle that ran a red light. I do not remember much about the accident because I was in a coma for six days. I had a very serious head injury. I was off work for nearly one year, then on restricted duty for two years.

I had to learn to eat and swallow again.

My head injury caused memory issues, which I have to this day.

I did not take a duty or medical retirement at the advice of my union. They told me not to worry---the retirement insurance coverage would take care of me. But that’s not true anymore.

I do not think I am special, nor do I think I am unique. I am like every other patrol officer in any other city. I worked hard. I earned everything I have. I do not want anyone to “give” me anything.

I do want what I earned --- my health-care coverage and pension.

Thank you for listening. I hope you do not experience the same treatment.


TOPICS: Extended News; US: Michigan
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To: sunrise_sunset
Their pension taxes took the place of the FICA tax.

I'd be ecstatic to getting my FICA contributions plus the Company's contribution (money that they could have given to me) with interest paid back.

I'd be very happy to get my FICA contributions (forget the Company's contributions) with interest paid back.
I support this gentleman getting the money he paid into his 'pension taxes' plus interest returned.

What happened here is that the government reneged on a legal agreement. Something conservatives are supposed to be against.

My problem is that the Government was making promises that they could not possibly keep (by means other than stealing everything from private citizens) - basically buying votes. A 'legal agreement' made by thieves, and agreed to by people who knew it was based on future required theft -- does not deserve support.

81 posted on 11/07/2013 3:33:40 PM PST by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: bkopto

POLICE AND FIRE RETIREMENT SYSTEM OF THE CITY OF DETROIT
MINUTES – MEETING NUMBER 2631 – THURSDAY, JUNE 7, 2007

BRIAN LAWRENCE

WHEREAS, Detroit Police Officer Brian Lawrence
submitted to the Police and Fire Retirement System of
the City of Detroit (the “Retirement System”) an
application for withdrawal of his defined contribution
plan (the “Defined Contribution Plan”), and
WHEREAS, Brian Lawrence meets the Retirement
System’s minimum qualifications for a Defined
Contribution Plan withdrawal, and

WHEREAS, Brian Lawrence’s pension and deferred
compensation plans are subject to eligible domestic
relation orders (EDRO’s) dated July 24, 2001 and
December 14, 2001, respectively, pursuant to a
Judgment of Divorce dated July 2001 Adrienne Wright-
Lawrence v. Brian M. Lawrence, Case No. 01-101612
DM, which, in relevant part, awarded Brian Lawrence
one hundred percent (100%) of the Defined
Contribution Plan and Ms. Wright-Lawrence $5000 of
the deferred compensation (“Aetna Plan”), and

WHEREAS, notwithstanding the foregoing, Brian
Lawrence and Ms. Wright-Lawrence each advised the
Retirement System that the deferred compensation
plan administrator has failed to accept the December
14, 2001 EDRO, and

WHEREAS, Brian Lawrence and Ms. Wright-Lawrence, in
an effort to resolve the dispute pertaining to Ms. Wright-
Lawrence’s $5000 award of the Aetna Plan proceeds,
Brian Lawrence and Ms. Wright-Lawrence entered into
a letter agreement dated June 7, 2007 wherein Ms.
Wright-Lawrence relinquishes her claim to the $5000

award of the Aetna Plan proceeds in lieu of Brian
Lawrence paying Ms. Wright-Lawrence $6000 following
his withdrawal of the Defined Contribution Plan, and
such letter agreement has been submitted to the
Board of Trustees of the Police and Fire Retirement
System of the City of Detroit, and

WHEREAS, the Board’s General Counsel and Special
Legal Counsel have reviewed this matter, including the
letter agreement, conferred with each party, and
advised the Board, and

WHEREAS, the Board has considered this matter, and
THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, the Board hereby approves Brian
Lawrence’s request for the withdrawal of his Defined
Contribution Plan, and be it further

RESOLVED, that a copy of this resolution be forwarded
to Brian Lawrence and Ms. Wright-Lawrence:


82 posted on 11/07/2013 3:34:26 PM PST by kcvl
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To: Usagi_yo

It’s complicated. My wife was a public employee in Ohio for quite a few years before they got pulled into the SocSec system in 1991. A public pension definitely reduces a person’s Soc Sec payout via the “windfall elimination provision” which was passed in 83.

http://www.ssa.gov/gpo-wep/


83 posted on 11/07/2013 3:34:42 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: Chode

ping


84 posted on 11/07/2013 3:35:01 PM PST by abb
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To: bkopto
That's what you get for having religious faith in government.
85 posted on 11/07/2013 3:36:21 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Who knew that one day professional wrestling would be less fake than professional journalism?)
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To: bkopto
"◾Compared with defined-benefit plans, which offer employees an annuity at retirement, defined-contribution plans are riskier for employees, because the employee bears the risk of underperforming assets and extended longevity. This risk can be muted if employees use the assets in their defined-contribution plan to purchase annuities at retirement."
86 posted on 11/07/2013 3:37:34 PM PST by kcvl
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To: bkopto

Stupid is supposed to hurt.


87 posted on 11/07/2013 3:43:12 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: abb
how's it feel to be flushed down the drain like a used union condom???

88 posted on 11/07/2013 3:45:00 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Lurker

Brutal...

;-)


89 posted on 11/07/2013 3:45:24 PM PST by DB
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To: cripplecreek
"The only thing that will ever help any of us is a far smaller less intrusive government."

Which might be possible after defaults and repudiations of debt: occurrences that limit future borrowing (especially from foreign investors) and regulatory enforcement. The same occurrences can limit foreign imports, necessitating much more domestic production (more private sector jobs).


90 posted on 11/07/2013 3:50:05 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Mears

You are right that I don’t know specifically know who he voted for.

However most union members vote for the politicians who promise the
goodies. He is a union member.


91 posted on 11/07/2013 3:54:31 PM PST by tennmountainman (Just Say No To Obamacare)
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To: El Cid

“Keep your treasures in Heaven, because what you have here will soon be moth eaten and riddled with rust”.

that’s the truth!


92 posted on 11/07/2013 3:55:02 PM PST by SisterK (its a spiritual war)
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To: Hojczyk

Just found this in my inbox..........

KEEP PASSING THIS AROUND UNTIL EVERY ONE HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ IT... THIS IS SURE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!!!! THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH THE GOVERNMENT’S CALCULATION OF AVAILABLE SOCIAL SECURITY IS THEY FORGOT TO FIGURE IN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED BEFORE THEY EVER COLLECTED A SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK!!!WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO?

Remember, not only did you and I contribute to Social Security but your employer did, too. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that’s close to $220,500.

Read that again. Did you see where the Government paid in one single penny? We are talking about the money you and your employer put in a Government bank to insure you and I that we would have a retirement check from the money we put in, not the Government.

Now they are calling the money we put in an entitlement when we reach the age to take it back. If you calculate the future invested value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer’s contribution) at a simple 5% interest (less than what the Government pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working you’d have $892,919.98.

If you took out only 3% per year, you’d receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you’re 95 if you retire at age 65) and that’s with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you’d have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month.

Another thing - if someone died in their 50’s or before, they never withdrew one cent of their social security money that they paid into all their lives - so that money just went up in smoke?

THE THIEVES IN WASHINGTON HAVE PULLED OFF A BIGGER PONZI SCHEME THAN BERNIE MADOFF EVER DID.

Entitlement my foot, I paid cash for my social security insurance! Just because they borrowed the money for other government spending, doesn’t make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!! Remember Congressional benefits? -— free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days.

Now that’s welfare, and they have the nerve to call my social security retirement payments entitlements? We’re “broke” and we can’t help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, or Homeless. Yet in the last few months we have provided aid to Haiti, Chile, Turkey, Egypt and Pakistan.

Literally, BILLIONS of DOLLARS!!! And they can’t help our own citizens in New York and New Jersey! They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now, when its time for us to collect, the government is running out of money.

Why did the government borrow from it in the first place?????????It was never supposed to be part of the general fund.

Sad isn’t it. 99% of people won’t have the guts to forward this. I’m in the 1% — I just did


93 posted on 11/07/2013 3:56:40 PM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: bkopto

If the city just for the heck of it stopped paying retirement, then that is a problem. If the city does not have the money to continue to pay full retirements, then it’s pretty plain. The Democrat party should volunteer to pay these retirements. They caused this wreck. Let the police union sue the Democrat party for fraud.


94 posted on 11/07/2013 3:57:52 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: sodpoodle

Wait until the government starts taking or at least taxing private retirement
funds. And if you are in your 50’s or younger, good luck to all of us in
getting the SS we paid in.


95 posted on 11/07/2013 4:01:14 PM PST by tennmountainman (Just Say No To Obamacare)
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To: bkopto
Should have been a cop in Galveston,TX...worked out pretty well for them.
96 posted on 11/07/2013 4:03:19 PM PST by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: bkopto

I would like to point out that not all police and fire pension systems are like the ones that allow folks to retire at 20 yrs at exhorbitant pay percentages.

In WA state it was like that 30 yrs ago but even this lefty state saw it wasn’t sustainable and changed to a new pension system.

1.5 percent for each year of service. Can’t retire early without taking a financial hit. No health insurance after retirement like most other people.

this pension is for police and firefighters. It is a statewide pension system four all police and fire agencies. Previously each municipality was responsible 4 the pension of their employees. Then the state wanted 2 make a plan that covered all fire police state wide so they came to the City of Seattle and I asked that it join the new pension system. Without Seattle this plan will not work.

that was called law enforcement and Fire pension. It was very generous and like the plans you see criticized these days. But it was noted that it was not sustainable after a while, so they created a new plan with less generous coverage about 30 years ago and that is now called law enforcement and Fire 2.

why these other states and cities could not see how it was bound to fail and make changes before the crisis is stupid.

what I like to have the ability to be in the first plan with the incredibly generous benefits, yes I would. But it’s a suicide pact if you don’t make it financially sound. Did this police officer deserve to be the last person in the Ponzi scheme? Of course not. But the laws of economics are just as applicable as the law of gravity. Politicians only think about how do I stay in this job today.


97 posted on 11/07/2013 4:11:47 PM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (It is going to be Foot to Ass combat on election day....my foot and a Rat's ass.)
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To: bkopto

The deal with the City was as a result of your union negotiating that. You should not have allowed your union to spend all your money without having sufficient funds to cover the fund.

Did you have an unrealistic rate of return for adequate funding when the economy went belly up? DId you think you could get 8% when no one else can?

You are not out money because of the bankruptcy, you are out of the money because the union spent the money, or the City underfunded the pension, because they wanted something else, other than to fund the pension.

The bankruptcy was merely the result.

What does the fact that as a cop you saw bad things have to do with it? Is that not what you knew would happen when you took the job? were you not paid? Are you seeking sympathy as a reason for other to pay you for your profligate spending by your union and the City Fathers?

It is too bad your union lied to you to get you to make some dumb decisions in your retirement.

Admit that your union committed fraud and you are a victim of your own union.

Math is funny that way. It is capable of only one solution. When $1.00 is spent, it cannot be spent again, and again, and again.

Borrowing money with at interest costs more than using existing funds.

Life is a hard lesson to learn for those who want what they want, when they want it, and find someone else to blame.

No sympathy here. You reap what you sow.


98 posted on 11/07/2013 4:17:43 PM PST by LachlanMinnesota
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To: bkopto
I did not take a duty or medical retirement at the advice of my union. They told me not to worry---the retirement insurance coverage would take care of me.

IOW, Officer, they appealed to your greed in order to get somebody off the hook for your on-the-job injuries, by offering you more money if you lied about the circumstances of your retirement. That's too bad. I hope your next job doesn't require you to remember stuff.

99 posted on 11/07/2013 4:21:35 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (We're At That Awkward Stage: It's too late to vote them out, too early to shoot the bastards.)
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To: bkopto

What percentage did Detroit police pay into the pension?


100 posted on 11/07/2013 4:24:08 PM PST by GeronL
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