Replies

“OK, think of it this way: which do you think would make a person closer to God - being Mormon or living a deviant homosexual lifestyle? “

Neither, homosexuality and idolatry are both damning sins. In fact, the sin of Mormonism is perhaps even greater, since it masquerades as the Gospel, though it is called accursed by the Apostle (Gal 1:6-9). So it provides false hope and salvation under the cover of their version of Christ, and damns a person to hell, as if there had been no change at all in their life.

Though, the LDS actually isn’t as hard on homosexual acts as people would like to believe.

“We have a cultural battle going on where one dimension is the acceptance of deviant sexual behavior as normal.”

We have a spiritual battle wherein groups like the Mormons and other deviants are trying to infiltrate Christianity and, thus, abolish the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Mormonism is just one part of it. The Rob Bell types, Prosperity pimps, and other freaks and creeps are working for Satan too.

“If they are successful at convincing people that deviant sexual behavior is immoral, they allow those people to have a better chance at finding God.”

Biblically, it is God who goes forth and finds people, and it is not based on whether or not they think homosexuality is a sin or not. Otherwise, Scientologists, who have the same views, would be just as beneficial for your cause as any other, especially since on the lower levels they also claim that their religion is compatible with other religions.

Whether it is Mormons, or Scientologists, or Jehovah’s Witnesses, they are all interchangeable for your point of view, and would all, by your logic, be great defenders of “morality,” though they all possess deviant beliefs which renders them all “falling short of the glory of God.”

“Now, do you really believe that dismissing or even fighting a guy who is supporting a path that will bring people closer to God just because he is a Mormon is actually serving God? “

Of course, as what saith the scripture?

2Jn 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: (11) For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

And again,

2 Corinthians 11:12
And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.

Giving these people an appearance of being, somehow, equal with Christianity in no way supports our cause, but rather gives them ammunition to claim that they are Christian just like us, even as they drag souls to hell with their abominable teachings.

First, I never said anything about Mormons being equal to Christians. In fact, my whole point was that they DON'T HAVE TO BE EQUAL to Christians to be our natural allies IN THIS FIGHT. I would remind you, that when Prop 8 in California was up on the ballot (the referendum to define marriage as between one man and one woman), it was largely the money and effort of the Mormon church that got the votes for prop 8 to pass (which was then illegally invalidated by the leftwing courts, but that is irrelevant for this discussion). The Catholic Church do nearly as much, the Protestants didn't do nearly as much - that victory for God was won largely by the Mormons. Yet, you would advocate spurning their efforts because they have a different definition of God than Christians.

Well, if you want to get specific, Catholics and protestants have slightly different definitions of God as well. I'm going to guess that you're a member of an Evangelical sect (or a troll), in which case you probably hate Catholics and accuse them of worshiping Mary etc. etc. Are you going to refuse to support any Catholic efforts to protect and defend God's principles because you think they engage in idolatry as well? If so, then your list of allies gets pretty thin, and if we all thought like you, we would guarantee ourselves to lose this battle, and the war. If you're wondering why I keep bringing up the possibility of your being a troll, it is because I think you know this and want to sow discord among natural allies.

Just in case you aren't a troll, I'm going to attempt to make you understand this point one more time (I notice you've been avoiding addressing it): we should support Card (and anyone else) when he is on the right side of the Lord. We could disagree with everything else he believes, but if he says publicly that homosexuality is wrong and should be condemned as deviant, WE SHOULD SUPPORT HIM IN THIS EFFORT. If he later says that we should all join the Mormon Church, then we should disagree with him. Heck, if an atheist calls out homosexuality as deviant sexual behavior, we should support him in that effort. What you are advocating is worse than silly.

Though, the LDS actually isn’t as hard on homosexual acts as people would like to believe.

It's the 'little factory' that gets MOST of them in trouble!

What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?

"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982

"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65

spencer kimball "Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196

"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.

kimball "I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965

"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155

"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.