Posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:04 AM PDT by IbJensen
Pope Francis on Monday said “who am I to judge?” gay people as he discussed one of the most divisive issues affecting the Catholic Church.
Pope Francis, who gave a press conference on his flight back from Brazil, said he had stayed away from the gay marriage debate on his trip because he wanted to stay positive.
“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.
“They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."
Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind -- including political ones -- were bad.
"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said.
The press conference, which lasted for an hour and 20 minutes, was held during the flight back from his week-long trip to Brazil.
The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.
All priests take a vow of celibacy when they become members of the clergy.
The pontiff went to Brazil on his first visit overseas since he was elected in March.
The Pope said he had stayed away from the issue of gay marriage and also abortion on his week-long trip to Brazil because he wanted to stay positive.
Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop “the theology of women in the church.”
He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked.
"Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."
History's first Latin American pope said he was "pretty tired" but with a happy heart after his first overseas trip.
He said he was amazed at the number of people who turned out to see him in Brazil, especially the three million who jammed Copacabana Beach for Sunday's Mass.
He added that he was unconcerned by the tumultuous start to the trip that included the discovery of a bomb at a shrine he visited and the mob scene that took place when his driver inadvertently made wrong turn.
"There's always the danger of a crazy person, but there is also the Lord," he said. "This being close is good for everyone."
Key words: is being bent
As in, somebody else is doing the bending.
As I have done any number of times before, please let me quote Archbishop Chaput on this matter:
| We make a very serious mistake if we rely on media like the New York Times, Newsweek, CNN, or MSNBC for reliable news about religion. These news media simply don’t provide trustworthy information about religious faith—and sometimes they can’t provide it, either because of limited resources or because of their own editorial prejudices. These are secular operations focused on making a profit. They have very little sympathy for the Catholic faith, and quite a lot of aggressive skepticism toward any religious community that claims to preach and teach God’s truth. |
Why assume?
Go to the source.
Honestly, it’s amazing how many eople are so wlling to opine on something they not only won’t read, but that they refuse to read.
This is not even reasonable it’s insane
It probably is rooed in hatred
“Key words: is being bent
As in, somebody else is doing the bending.”
The Pope has a mouth, and he used it. This Pope needs to become much more careful in what and how he says things, although what he may be actually thinking is problematical.
Ironically, I’ve encountered the “you’re-a-bigot-if-you-don’t-support-same-sex-marriage” thinking among protestants. Not all of them, of course, and certainly not those on FR. But, one particular encounter was the impetus for me to return to the Catholic Church.
I don’t think it means what you think it means"
Yes, perhaps that was not strong enough. Perhaps I should have said "worship". This from pope JPII when he was in Cherry Creek Park, Denver:
"With my heart full of praise for the Queen of Heaven, the sign of hope and source of comfort on our pilgrimage of faith to the heavenly Jerusalem, I greet all of you who are present at this solemn liturgy...This liturgy presents you, Mary, as the woman clothed with the sun...O woman clothed with the sun...the youth of the world greet you with so much love...In Mary the final victory of life over death is already a reality...O Mary...as Mother of the Church, you guide us from your place in heaven and...help us to increase in holiness by conquering sin."
You are right...this tripe sounds like prayer and worship to a false god. Run, don't walk, from Rome my FRiend.
Go to the source.
Honestly, it’s amazing how many eople are so wlling to opine on something they not only won’t read, but that they refuse to read.
This is not even reasonable it’s insane
It probably is rooed in hatred
The Catholic Church endorses and promotes late nineteenth century liberal German Protestant Biblical criticism. It has for almost a century. Every Catholic book, article, and tract teaches Biblical criticism and attacks everyone who rejects it. So do your co-religionists on this forum, to whom I notice you never have anything to say. I can only conclude you agree with them.
People who say that G-d's Torah is mythology deserve to be hated.
Unfortunately, words matter when souls are at stake. It appears the Pope is caving to political correctness and giving un-scriptural, sinful behavior a huge pass.
Well, we certainly have done just that. What we (biblically based believers vs. Roman cult-followers) want is a return to the truth of the Scriptures as it was without that 1500 years of errant "...interpretation, traditions and history". We would gladly help the world go back to the Gospel as presented by the Apostles before it was mangled by Rome.
Don't worry, God has always been able to skirt Rome and get the truth to His chosen. But, we are called to point out the error when it rears its ugly head and Rome is rearing it, again.
I’m not seeing the word worship in there
You can search the catechism and tradition as well as the bible from which catholicism is based btw. But you will not find pne reference to worhipping Mary
She made victory over death possible through agreeing to cooperate with God’s will and bear Jesus
It’s really not a problem
Be careful. The enemy hates and fears her more than any person anyone. So you know you don’t really want to side with that
No idea what you are babbling on about
I can say you have not read the catechism you criticize
“There is so much being written about the gay lobby. I haven’t met anyone in the Vatican yet who has “gay” written on their identity cards. There is a distinction between being gay, being this way inclined and lobbying. Lobbies are not good. If a gay person is in eager search of God, who am I to judge them? The Catholic Church teaches that gay people should not be discriminated against; they should be made to feel welcome. Being gay is not the problem, lobbying is the problem and this goes for any type of lobby, business lobbies, political lobbies and Masonic lobbies.”
Again, it is pretty obvious how his words are being twisted.
What amazes me is how so many FReepers, who are normally the most cynical people in the world regarding the media, drink the cool-aid when it comes reporting on the Catholic Church. Mind-boggling.
You selectively ignore this part of the Pope’s comments: “Being gay is not the problem.” Yes it is, as it is a continuously sinful mindset. Kind of like Jimmy Carter’s lusting in his heart, but remaining faithful in marriage.
Firstly, that's Christ, not you, despite whatever complex
Secondly, this is specifically for those who have a homosexual orientation or tendency and do not act on it -- as remember the target of these comments are expected to be celibate.
If someone is gay and does not act on this sin, do you chastise them?
Then you should continue to just speak to Mary and revere her as the source of salvation. We'll see what happens when the curtain falls.
USS: "LUST" is "sinful."
you do realise the difference between an attraction and lust, right?
If you are attracted to a painting do you, USSJ, lust for it all the time?
You do realize the gradations between these, right?
Yet the target of these comments don't give any indication of adopting that label at all. If they do, then they are inveterate sinners who act on the sin.
As in having the tendency or the inclination to sin — IF ONE DOES NOT ACT ON IT — is not sinful of itself. It’s indicative of a fallen nature that we all have and we all have the propensity to sin, but if we do not succumb to this, we are following what Christ taught. if we DO succumb, then we are sinners.
“Don’t worry, God has always been able to skirt Rome and get the truth to His chosen. But, we are called to point out the error when it rears its ugly head and Rome is rearing it, again.”
Gee, don’t let your prejudices against the Catholic Church show to much. Someone might see it. And yeah, you know better how to interpret the bible than the original Christian Church. For that matter, there are so many Protestant sects now that they spend their time endlessly trying to reinterpret the Bible, and as it is Sola Scriptura, that means any person’s individual interpretation of the Bible is as good as anyone else’s is. So you end up with thousands upon thousands of interpretations. Even Martin Luther deplored the fact that every milkmaid and farmhand thought they could interpret scripture correctly.
We always say ‘pray for us to Jesus’ and we NEVER say accept us into heaven
You are talking about protestant notions, false notions of what Catholics do
Youare lying. And you are spreading falsehoods which are common and doing so without informing yourself from the truthful source
Just lies you’ve trusted in
They are not true
“but if we do not succumb to this, we are following what Christ taught. if we DO succumb, then we are sinners.”
Oh I see, so if I go about life with continuous thoughts of murdering people, how about continually thinking about mass murder or terrorist attacks, just as long as I don’t act on those thoughts, I’m right with Christ and not a sinner, yes?
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