House votes to continue NSA surveillance program (217-205)

10News ^ | 24 July 2013

[11th_VA]

WASHINGTON - The U.S. House of Representatives has voted to continue the collection of hundreds of millions of Americans' phone records in the fight against terrorism.

The chamber rejected a measure to end the program's authority. The vote was 217-205 on Wednesday.

Republican Rep. Justin Amash had challenged the program as an indiscriminate collection of phone records. His measure, if approved by the full House and Senate and signed by the president, would have ended the program's statutory authority.

The White House, national security experts in Congress and the Republican establishment had lobbied hard against Amash's effort.

Libertarian-leaning conservatives and some liberal Democrats had supported Amash's effort.

The vote was unlikely to settle the debate over privacy rights and government efforts to thwart terrorism

[Jane Long]

Thanks for the link. Listening/pausing - in sections, as it's long. Bachmann was one of the first up...here's a brief snippet/recap of what she said....

National security is a clear and present danger...a false narrative has emerged that the gov't is taking in content of American's phone calls/emails...not true....not happening.

We need to deal in facts and facts are these: The only people benefiting from this (Amash) bill/protected would be islamic jihadists....

Whoever agrees to this (amendment) today would agree to handcuff ourselves and our allies, by restricting ourselves. Let's not deal in false narratives- let us deal in facts that will keep American people safe.

She said more...something about only the outside of our letters being looked at, not what's inside (4th amendment rights). Frankly, I was pretty much shocked listening to Rep Bachmann.

Rep Sensenbrenner was up next...just listened to the beginning....he's for the bill/against NSA's overreach....and, he's one of the original sponsors of The Patriot Act. Says it's gone too far.

[Jane Long]

I hear ya. These clowns need to be named and shamed.

[firebrand]

I haven’t read the thread yet, but it seemed to me that the guy from the NSA was equating the Patriot Act with the latest NSA trove. Patriot Act covered phone calls between foreign terrorist and American, not American and American, am I right? If I’m right, he misrepresented the issue to Congress and the people.

[Whenifhow]

James Sensenbrenner GOES OFF At Fisa Hearing. You Can’t Have It Both Ways

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHJX-Hhd_4w

(Near end of video) You are having it both ways.
Section 215 expires at the end of 2015 and there are not the votes to renew it. You have to change how you operate.

And listen to Conyers!
John Conyers: This Must Be Stopped Immediately. Fisa Hearing 7/17/2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3w2fQVKJ14

You have already violated the law.
To document the first question asked – why didn’t we tell everyone, because they would be outraged!
We skip over whether it was a 4th amendment violation.
I see this as a complete failure – you know we changed the patriot act because of this very problem.
It must be stopped immediately.

snip

My time is expired, it is clear to me that we have a very serious violation of the law. The judiciary committee deliberately put in the issue of relevance.

Full Hearing:
4 hours 15 minutes

James Cole introduced at 14 min
Robert S Litt introduced at 15 min
John C. Inglis introduced at 16 min
Stephanie Douglas – introduced at 17 min

House Judiciary Committee Hearing On NSA Spying & Fisa Court Authorities

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOtUBOMqns

[Sopater]

Bachmann and Ryan voted against this. Which leads me to believe there is more to this.

I'm starting to wonder the same thing... It would be good to hear a statement from someone out there who has their head screwed on straight.

[firebrand]

But they have your entire circle of friends, family, etc., as I pointed out on an earlier thread. I think that was the point of the data collection.

[American in Israel]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Whenifhow]

just like facebook and twitter. The point of those is to get your circle of friends in the database.

Sensenbrenner and others in that hearing are accusing NSA of interpreting the Patriot Act differently than the intended language.

[firebrand]

Looking at the outsides of letters is the same thing: get the noose around all your contacts, just in case. Chilling.

[firebrand]

I was unable to watch the hearings; just saw a snippet on Fox but it told me the NSA guy was lying. Patriot Act did not cover American-to-American contacts.

[firebrand]

Sensenbrenner and others are right. Can we “undo” this vote because of the misrepresentation?

[RedMDer]

First the Ayes, or those who voted to end the NSA's surveillance activity. Republicans in roman, Democrats in italic, Independents underlined.


And here are the 217 for whom "protection against terrorism" is of tantamount importance. Certainly more important than the privacy of US citizens.

[Whenifhow]

It was close yesterday and Sensenbrenner has already indicated the votes to renew the Patriot Act are not there in 2015. In another video of hearing/ debate, it was suggested that they officially amend the Patriot Act wording so there could be no misinterpretation.

Yesterday there was an emergency meeting - General came to congress to advocate for NSA. Perhaps he made some points with some congress members. Clearly not all of congress is being told the truth, which in itself tells the story.

[maggief]

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/24/amash_vs_bachmann_on_nsa_bill/

Republican Reps. Justin Amash and Michele Bachmann sparred over the NSA’s phone surveillance program, with Bachmann saying she is opposing Amash’s bill to defund it because “I believe that we need to win the War on Terror.”

The two were speaking during a monthly Conversation with Conservatives event, and Bachmann began by defending the program from arguments that it violates the Fourth Amendment. “Individuals do not own the records, the records belong to the company,” she said. “The records are in their possession, they belong to the phone companies, they’re not the individual’s. So there’s no Fourth Amendment expectation of privacy or right to the business-record exception.”

[bigdaddy45]

You running against him?

[Drawn7979]

of course...

[aragorn]

Just give me access to the database and a simple ‘rm *.*’ should do it ...

Better yet, nuke it from orbit (it's the only way to be sure): '#rm -fr /'

[dfwgator]

well “sudo rm *.*”

[Sopater]

“I believe that we need to win the War on Terror.”

“The records are in their possession, they belong to the phone companies, they’re not the individual’s. So there’s no Fourth Amendment expectation of privacy or right to the business-record exception.”

Uhg, how dissapointing. "Win the war on Terror" by shredding the Constitution. This will have a chilling effect on businesses that handle private information. However, it could be a boost for a company that is willing to protect that info at the risk of butting heads with the gov't.

[i_robot73]

Let’s take her argument at face value, being the phone co’s data.

- How does it then become the ‘gov’t’s data’?
- Can the phone company also record all conversations as well as the other data (I’ll presume the latter, not the former)

I read nothing in the 4th that stipulates that ANY of this is viable w/out a Warrant.

I presume she’s got some of the same ‘ideas’ for those ‘common-sense’ guns laws too?