Posted on 06/26/2013 10:15:42 PM PDT by nickcarraway
Mayor-elect Eric Garcetti still has a lot of decisions to make about his upcoming inauguration. Should he sit in with Moby, or would that be too show-offy? Which food truck should he hit first?
But one decision seems to have been made. Garcetti -- L.A.'s first elected Jewish mayor -- will take his oath on a Christian Bible.
His spokesman, Diego de la Garza, said the Bible belonged to Garcetti's Catholic grandmother.
As a candidate, Garcetti often noted that he would be the first elected Jewish mayor in the city's history. (One was appointed in the 1870s.) However, his heritage is complicated. His mother is Jewish. His father, former D.A. Gil Garcetti, is of Italian and Mexican descent. Garcetti, who speaks Spanish, calls himself "doble mestizo."
His complex ancestry created a dilemma for his inauguration. Some Jewish officials -- such as New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg -- take their oaths on a Hebrew Bible.
In Garcetti's case, tradition won out. His spokesman said that he used his paternal grandmother's Bible when he was sworn in as a councilman, and saw no reason to do anything differently this time. Garcetti's paternal grandmother, Juanita Iberri, was born in Arizona; her family came from Mexico.
Thanks - I think we've got a thread winner...
ZC: “Doing so is a slap in the face to Torah,G-d Himself and the Jewish people.”
Cronos: “That’s your opinion, not shared by him, and not by all Jewish people. Perhap’s it’s just a Noahcide failing?”
Well, an observant Jewish person should not take an oath on a Chrisitan Bible because, bluntly, the additional chapters are considered heretical and false. Taking such an oath gives the appearance of accepting said teachings as true, which is against the duties of an observant Jewish person who deems said teachings false.
Be a bit like you taking an oath on the Bible which includes later chapters from the Book of Mormon or the Koran.
Personally, if I was a Christian and saw a Jewish person taking an oath on a Christian Bible, I would be thinking to myself that the persona taking the oath didn’t take it seriously, in that he rejects 1/3 of the book he is using as false.
As it is, this guy probably should have used Mao’s Little Red Book, maybe something by Marx, or Darwin’s Origin of the Species, as any such are more meaningful to him than anything Divine or allegedly Divine.
Oh lord....the horror
As mayor of los Angeles he probably should have taken the oath on Das Kapital
Or Musings of Zapata on a Sunday Afternoon
Isn’t it strange....I have never in my life known a Christian turned Jew except one Catholic who did so for marriage.....divorced....she’s now Pentecostal
But this forum has a couple dozen Christians turned Jew or wish they were Jewish....or whatever this in between thing is
And dare criticize liberal Jewish vanguard attacks on traditional culture or any minor misstep by Israel and they pounce with zeal hurling anti Semite smear 100 times quicker than our known natural Jews
I’m not disparaging their faith but rather the behavior of some....
Its just a sub culture I know little about and at least from the outside feels like chosen envy or coveting.
And denying Christ existence....our actual Jews here...to their credit...never do that.
Is Messianic and Noahide related.
“our actual Jews here..”
A convert is no less a Jewish person that a person born Jewish. Indeed, perhaps more Jewish, in that they knew what they were getting into.
Perhaps this is what you detect.
+++++++++
“Is Messianic and Noahide related.”
No, not particularly. Noahide are gentiles that follow the laws of Noah set forth in the Bible. (Many Christians mistakenly believe the Covenant of Sinai is applicable to them; this is incorrect, unless said Christians happen to be Jewish, the Laws of Noah apply to them.) Noahides are gentiles who believe they are rejecting false additions to the Torah and follow G-d’s word as delievered to the Gentiles.
“Messianic” in contrast are either:
Jewish people who accept the Nazarine as the Mosiach, and yet reject the Roman additions to their religion, going back to what is, at least superficially, a Jewish-appearing worship. They are typically Orthodox in apppeance and custom, keep kosher, etc.
or
Gentiles who adopt a Jewish-looking form of worship, for whatever reason, and can sometimes appear to be Jewish. Sometimes this is done as a subterfuge to trick Jewish people.
tks....very informative
It is not opinion. It is the truth.
No true Jew will be OK with taking a vow on that bible.
The Christian bible is the ‘New’ Testament ONLY.
I’m the one who said ‘Doing so is a slap in the face to Torah,G-d Himself and the Jewish people’.
Wrong.
Gil Garcetti, the father, was the DA during the OJ murder case.
Your version of the Hebrew Scriptures is incorrect. It is a blatant perversion of G-d’s eternal word. What G-d said in the Torah goes and it is not to be changed or altered in ANY way and that’s what Christianity has done.
Jews and Noahides do not call the Torah the “Old Testament” since it is the ONLY Testament. The ‘New’ Testament is the Christian bible.
“I’m the one who said ‘Doing so is a slap in the face to Torah,G-d Himself and the Jewish people’.”
Sorry, thread comprehension-reading fail.
(In my defense, sounds pretty fairly like a ZC comment.)
But hey, as I understand it, this "Jewish" mayor is actually Catholic anyway. But because he has one Jewish parent, is liberal, isn't a redneck, and thinks the Torah is mythology he's an honorary member of the tribe. After all, as everyone knows (sarcasm), Judaism isn't about G-d and Objective Truth but the Bill of Rights. After all, doesn't Chanukkah celebrate the receiving of the Bill of Rights by Thomas Jefferson on Mt. Rushmore?
And while we're at it, don't forget another "honorary member:" Rabbi Shmuley Boteach's boyfriend.
Sorry, all. I may have to avoid posting for a while.
Interesting all this comes to pass so near Shiva Assar B’Tammuz.
Bevadday.
But this forum has a couple dozen Christians turned Jew or wish they were Jewish....or whatever this in between thing is
And dare criticize liberal Jewish vanguard attacks on traditional culture or any minor misstep by Israel and they pounce with zeal hurling anti Semite smear 100 times quicker than our known natural Jews
And I've never attacked "liberal Jewish vanguard attacks on traditional culture?" That's what you're saying? Really? Where the blazes have you been for the past fourteen years where I have defending rural American Fundamentalist Protestants time after time after time after time after time? Huh? Or maybe you are unaware that I have been accused of anti-Semitism because I have dared to criticize the two-hundred-plus-year-old tactic of identifying Judaism with the promotion of "religious freedom" rather than the promotion of G-d? As a matter of fact, where are you when I'm defending the total inerrancy of Scripture? Or do you even care? Maybe you're an evolutionist yourself? Maybe you're one of those "palaeos" who worship the contemptible H.L. Mencken?
And what do you mean by "traditional culture?" Is that some sort of euphemism for the Laws of G-d because you're afraid to say "the laws of G-d?" Or maybe you don't believe there's an objective G-d with objective Laws? Maybe you think "truth" evolves over billions and jillions and zillions of eons through trial and error and slowly encodes itself in our instincts. Maybe you don't even believe there is a single objectively true cultural tradition at all? You one of those "planet of peoples" loonie toons who think there's a separate but equal "truth" for every culture and ethnic group on the planet? Maybe Judaism "subverts" all these wonderful "traditional cultures" because it is based on G-d and not on utilitarian social traditionalism?
And my, my, my . . . what have those awful Israelis been up to now? Did they fluoridate your drinking water? Confiscate your apricot pits? Try to take your brandy and cigars away from you? Or did they recite a magical phrase from the Talmud and magically cause your skin to get a little bit too dark? Goodness knows all the troubles in the world would disappear immediately if only there were no Israel. Why, before 5/14/'48 there was no evil in existence was there? How dare I not personally drop a hydrogen bomb on Jerusalem because those awful Israelis are causing good upstanding Northwestern European Man to disappear by "creating money out of nothing?" That's how they do it, right? I mean, here you are being all Super Traditional and Organic and all, and along come the ISRAELIS and all of a sudden some left wing intellectual from a cotton field in the Mississippi Delta is defiling your daughter with COMMUNISM! And it's all because Jews are living in Israel!
You want to know my position on Israel? Well here it is, so pay attention: I fully support the Benei Yisra'el in 'Eretz Yisra'el. But the western, democratic, liberal "State of Israel" and its institutions are all alien. And I mean the president, the prime ministership, legislature, and the "supreme court." G-d ordained a king, a high priest, and a sanhedrion, and that's it. That is the genuine Jewish Theocratic government that has existed continuously since Sinai and now buried beneath tons of copies of the Bill of Rights. Any alien western structure added to this Divinely-authorized government should be dismantled.
I’m not disparaging their faith but rather the behavior of some....
Well thank you all to blazes. Here I am as depressed as I can remember ever being over the world situation, unable to sleep at night, a nervous wreck, unable to properly daven this morning, and while I'm excoriating the guilty parties for everything they've done (see my "in forum") and here you come along jumping on my last nerve because I'm a liberal who defends "Jewish subversion" of of all that is good and pure and adorable in the world and don't sufficiently blame the Israelis for "personally ordering" the Supreme Court to legalize "gay marriage!" Well, I no longer have that nerve, Mr. wardaddy. I have had it. I've had it with having to be worried, depressed, scared, and everything else in the world about all this and then be jumped on by the likes of you, a non-theistic "palaeoconservative" along the lines of Sam Francis or Jared Taylor, jumping on me and accusing me of being a liberal working to destroy your precious "western civilization."
Understand this: I don't give a hoot for anybody's "civilization." Only one thing matters in this world or any other, and that is G-d. Not the "western gxd," not the "American gxd," but the True G-d. And you and anyone else in the world who doesn't understand this is a utilitarian ancestor-worshiper and idolator. There is only the True G-d and His Laws, not the eons of gradual evolution of anybody's stupid "civilization."
And just how useful has this vaunted "civilization" been in preventing all of this? It's been useless. You think there isn't some deep flaw in your civilization that made all this possible? You think that the Big Bad Jews did all of this by not corroding belief in the "incarnation?" You don't see the deep implication of the "incarnation" in this universal leftist ethnolatry that's taken over the world? And just how has this universal "inculturation" of G-d into each and every ethnic group on the planet worked out for you? You think the One, Invisible, Unincarnate G-d Who created the universe will turn this world into a sewer? Well guess what . . . it's a sewer already! And the only objective standard in existence as to what is good and what is bad are the Laws of that awful alien Jewish G-d. But then, don't even consider that. You just go right back to trying the same things over and over and over that have never worked. And even if they did, they'd just put us back with Thomas Jefferson and Tom Paine and the whole thing would start all over again!
And denying Christ existence....our actual Jews here...to their credit...never do that.
When did I ever deny Chr*st's existence? What has his existence or non-existence got to do with the fact that G-d had already spoken and this so-called "new testament" doesn't meet any criteria and contradicts the universally acknowledged prior Revelation of G-d? And I note that you apparently have no trouble whatsoever with Catholics attacking the founders of Protestantism, but the Catholic Martin Luther who paved the way fifteen hundred years earlier is beyond discussion. So Catholics can point out where's Luther's teachings ultimately lead but I can't do the same for his predecessor?
And just which J*sus (there's one for every ethnic group!) are we talking about here? Are we talking about the "good" one worshiped by the ridgerunners in the hills of West Virginia or the "bad" one worshiped by the left wing Ph.D.'s in the swamps of Louisiana?
Is Messianic and Noahide related.
No.
Now I know I've ranted like a madman because I've been a maelstrom of emotion since this awful week started. You probably haven't read this far, but anyone who has please before this post gets yanked please listen to one final explanation for why I have reacted like this.
Yesterday I took a short road trip to the place I worked my first job. On the way back I drove through a little rural community and turned around on the parking lot between the Baptist and Methodist churches. While I was there I saw something on the marquee of that Baptist church that racked me to my very soul. There at the bottom, was this simple plea: "Please G-d, please continue to bless the United States of America." Here was this pitiful plea from the heart to G-d to continue to bless us even after what had just happened at the Supreme Court--a plea for Him to recognize that this was being forced on us against our will and please not to hold it against the innocent who were unimplicated. And I thought of all those smug, satisfied perverts and the ennablers who would have eaten this up. This is just what they wanted! To see decent people begging G-d not to punish the innocent along with the guilty. And the thought of their smirking satisfaction did something to me and I have not yet recovered and maybe I never will. And on top of all that, the realization that many "good chrstian" FReepers here would think it was just as funny because whoever left that message was a simpleton who didn't realize that Genesis is mythology when the truth is that they aren't worthy to carry the dirty sock of someone like this. Oh, and thanks again so much for your non-existent defense of poor rural white Southern chrstians while I have stood up for them for fourteen freaking years.
Now listen here: I have to live with this for 24 hours and spend a totally sleepless night with it gnawing at me, and you come along here and call me a liberal? You accuse me of defending cultural decay? You implicitly hang this decay on the shoulders of the Israelis, to whom I am allegedly too supportive? How dare you. I don't know a lot about the "chivalry" of "western civilization," but if this is an example, it is absolutely obscene.
Unfortunately there is no "ignore" feature at FR. If there were I would have used it may times over the years. I don't see your accusations because I want to or relish responding to them.
The Noachides are not hurting you. The Jews are not hurting you. And I have never done anything to harm you or yours. So listen up: you . . . leave . . . me . . . alone.
If any of my few friends has made it this far before the pulling, just in case this is my last post ever on Free Republic . . . please don't forget me.
That’s cool. :)
Quit with the drama....geezuss
Nut up.
You wish you were Jewish
There are worse things
I don’t condemn you for it and I didn’t accuse you of anything
Take a cue from jewbacca....who actually is of the tribe and relax
And you are worried about what? Are you taking the oath? What’s your concern. Will Los Angeles now be lost? Hey, it already is lost. What should you do?
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