When Work Disappears: What do we do with people whose livelihoods are destroyed? (Left waking-up?)

The Daily Beast ^ | June 14, 2013 | Megan McArdle

[2ndDivisionVet]

Paul Krugman has a column today on a topic you don't normally get much of from economists: sympathy for the Luddites. Back in 2001, when I sat in on my last formal economics class, this was about as daring a proposition as "Sympathy for the Devil" was as an album title.

---snip---

But I have started worrying about what's taking place at the bottom of the economy. In much of the industrial world, it seems to be increasingly difficult for people to earn a decent living without a fairly elite set of skills--or an elite set of credentials that mimic skills, like a BA in English Literature from an Ivy League institution. The ability to earn a decent living, either yourself or as part of a family, is one of the basic criteria for a decent life. (And yes, before you ask: I think trust funds can be just as toxic as lifetime welfare benefits.)

---snip---

For starters, it is politically difficult to imagine a really large class of people who simply permanently live off the state. The safety net is rooted in human instincts about reciprocal exchange. Of course, it isn't all that reciprocal--the majority of people who are net taxpayers are extremely unlikely to collect much in the way of food stamps, TANF, or even unemployment insurance. Nonetheless, the moral arguments are founded in the premise that these benefits are for emergencies, and anyone can have an emergency. They will lose political support if you have one group of people paying taxes, and a different group of people who can expect to live their entire life on the dole.

Such an arrangement would also be socially toxic....

[central_va]

On any given day if I boiled 24 hot dogs and bought buns and mustard and try to sell them on the street for a 10% profit I would be arrested.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

We need American jobs in America.

WTH sense does it make to make things in China?

I’m serious. Bring back US jobs.

[EBH]

So find your American dream and go create some American jobs.

It is way past time for us to stop blaming everyone else.

[Colorado Doug]

I think that Bill Ayres once said that 25 million Americans would have to be eliminated. That was some time ago and the target number is probably much higher now.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

No it is beyond what you describe.

China manufactures far, far too much of what we import.

Chinese factories are all 51% owned by China, and Chinese stuff is required to be made there.

The result is, a huge, growing and dangerous manufacturing deficit.

We have sold out. Bring back US manufacturing. Now.

[EBH]

I am serious too.

I am taking the risk and creating my own work, my own company, my own jobs...all pursuing the dream I have for my retirement years. A dream that radically changed in 2008 and looks better than any SS, IRA, or 401k.

Those jobs are not coming back, so put your American spirit back to work and stop looking for someone to give you a job. It is not up to anyone to give you a job. You have the greatest opportunity though to pursue your own dreams and create your own livelihood.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

I am just talking about China.

Bring back jobs from China, and defend American production.

Now.

[Colorado Doug]

Oh, and to add insult to injury, the owners are walking away from their business not with a decent pay-off, but thousands of dollars in debt.

So sorry to hear that.

[EBH]

No it is beyond what you describe.

If that is how you feel ...then no one can help you. I am sorry you have given up, instead of getting up.

[EBH]

I’m not talking about China...

I am talking about AMERICA.

[OldPossum]

The young people weren't taught in school how to count!

On FR a couple weeks ago there was a report on a young man who was working as a waiter and did not know what a dozen consisted of. Unbelievable.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

I am sorry you think I have given up.

I simply want China handled the same as other markets.

China is clobbering us, via a massive, manipulated closed market.

[pepsionice]

I think up through the 1970s...we were an austerity society. You worked your way to each level and gave yourself a “gift” to fit for that level.

In the 1980s....credit went turbo. I can still remember the hassle it was to get a credit card in 1981 at the base credit union. They wanted me to pay them $8 a month (a hefty monthly maintenance fee), and yearly fee of $80 (a fair sum in 1981). I refused, and walked away. In 1987, I got my first Master Card, no yearly fee and no monthly maintenance cost. They allowed me $2,000 for a limit. I was happy with them.

By 1993, I had a second credit card offered free to me, and both my limits were now $15,000.

These type actions by stores, banks, and credit card companies....brought Americans into a destruction period. There are people walking around with $80,000 in credit card debt. They will never recover. What did they spend the $80,000 on? The same stuff you suggest...stuff they didn’t really need.

[autumnraine]

I’ll never forget when the cash register was broke at some store. She had to use a calculator to get the change right instead of counting up. I tried to explain it to her but you’d think I was explaining brain surgery.

[a fool in paradise]

I wouldn’t begrudge him his billions if he didn’t rape my industry’s payscale and lie to the government about it. He depressed the whole industry’s wages, not just those slaving at Microserf.

And as I say, he is a pro-death panels, pro-Socialism, pro-mo’taxes guy.

FUBG

[central_va]

He depressed the whole industry’s wages,

Yes he did that POS. He also killed a lot of really good companies so his crap ware would be the only one on the field. He is thug and a crap weasel.

[autumnraine]

This is the point all the old timer Freepers do not consider.

[central_va]

$2.50 for a cellphone. $10 every four months to keep it working.

Can you give a link to that plan?

[Nowhere Man]

More evidence how idiotic free trade is. You go to a self respecting nation like Korea, they do their utmost to keep jobs at home for Koreans. In the US we prefer to see them getting welfare

Automation-computerization-robotics is also destroying jobs and leading to more wealth concentration

Well, we do need to bring back jobs by making it more business friendly here by lowering taxes and regulations, that's one step but we must also be like most other nations where they do keep their jobs at home as well. Automation is another threat as well, some nations do not go that route, like India, because they have so many people, they need to keep them employed. We all know, as do they, "idle hands are the Devil's workshop." When India did underground tests with A-Bombs, they did not use a lot of machines like we do in the West but they used many. many people with shovels to dig their holes.

It's either we understand that we need to suck up some pride and bring jobs back here, even if some methods go against established economic theory or we end up with a (much bigger) permanent underclass on the dole and/or doing nothing and have to resort to criminal activity to survive. As much as I don't like it, I cannot blame people who are in their 50's an above, sometimes younger, who just give up and go on disability. As much as I deplore it, I understand if that is what you do to survive. I think if automation continues, there will be a time where we might have to consider a negative income tax, ala Milton Friedman or some sort of guaranteed income ala "Star Trek." Still, putting people back to work somehow is the best way to do this, the best welfare program is a good, vibrant economy with plenty of jobs. Also, we need to bring immigration down to almost zero with few exceptions (like if one married a foreign spouse).

I understand that on paper, free trade should work but that is more for an ideal world where everyone is more or less on a sound footing, we do not have that, we may never will.

[Nowhere Man]

We have sold out. Bring back US manufacturing. Now.

All I can say is "Amen, preach it high, brother!" Nations are like people, we need to look out for our own interests.