Posted on 06/15/2013 6:33:28 AM PDT by DannyTN
As other Freepers have pointed out ... this vote obviates the SCOTUS 2000 BSA v. Dale case which barely found in BSA's favor, 5-4. Open homosexual adults in BSA is now inevitable. GLAAD, Human Rights Campaign, Scouts for Equality, and Change.org will see to it. Corporate American owns the BSA National Executive Board and the Fortune 500 CEOs are in favor of "inclusion."
10/27/1989 - British conservative political commentator and journalist, John O'Sullivan (who currently resides in Decatur, AL), wrote the article below which was published in National Review.
O’Sullivan’s First Law
An eternal truth.
“Robert Michels — as any reader of James Burnham's finest book, The Machiavellians, knows was the author of the Iron Law of Oligarchy. This states that in any organization the permanent officials will gradually obtain such influence that its day-to-day program will increasingly reflect their interests rather than its own stated philosophy. …
<… O'Sullivan's First Law: All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing. I cite as supporting evidence the ACLU, the Ford Foundation, and the Episcopal Church. The reason is, of course, that people who staff such bodies tend to be the sort who don't like private profit, business, making money, the current organization of society, and, by extension, the Western world. At which point Michels's Iron Law of Oligarchy takes over — and the rest follows.
The homosexualists have applied Saul Alinksy's tactics since the Stonewall Riots in 1969. They are just following Gramsci's "long march through the institutions" by which they now control academia/philanthropic foundations/media/public schools/government. Just this week the Caterpillar Foundation scratched BSA off its eligible recipient list because BSA still discriminates against open adult homosexuals. BSA was the last major holdout against the communists.
The founder of OnMyHonor, John Stemberger, doesn't strike me as a coward, dummy, or quitter. I think he sees the reality of the situation, and that is why he and a host of others are moving in the direction to create a new Scouting association for conservative/traditionalists in the USA.
The BSA demographics are irrefutable. It reached its membership zenith in 1973. It has been a continuous 40 year decline since then with a net loss of 56% in youth troop membership. Despite all the efforts BSA has expended in reaching out to racial minorities over the decades, they have little to show for it in traditional membership.
The U.S. Census Bureau projections are grim ...
2013 – U.S. population is 63% white, 15% Hispanic, and 13% black. (a 24.8% decrease of whites over 48 years since the passage of the 1965 Hart-Celler Immigration Act)
2013 - >45% of students in K-12 are minorities.
2013 – Democrats in Congress are attempting to reform U.S. immigration law to provide a path to citizenship for a majority of the ~11-30 million illegal alien Hispanics believed to be in the U.S. If this happens, it will dramatically alter the USCB projections of the racial make-up of the U.S. population. Democrats are also working for a policy change that covers illegal alien homosexuals in the U.S. to provide them a path to full citizenship. 2013 – 40% of live births in the U.S. were out of wedlock. White rate = 33%, Hispanic rate = 50%, Black rate = 72%
2018 - U.S. Census Bureau projects the number of non-white children in grades K-12 will be >50%.
The LDS Church took a beating, from the inside and outside, for aggressively supporting Proposition 8 in CA during 2008. Since then, the Church has moved on to other battles in the cultural wars rather than to continue to take on the homosexual-rights activists for several reasons.
Church leadership felt like it was left holding the financial bag after other evangelical denominations failed to come through with promised aid in the fight against Proposition 8. Top church officials were heavily involved in the creation of the National Organization for Marriage (NOM), the primary player over the last decade in the fight to outlaw gay unions.
According to Mormon pro-family activist Stephen Graham, founder of Standard of Liberty (5/17/2013 - http://americansfortruth.com/2013/05/17/aftah-interviews-lds-utah-activist-steve-graham-on-mormon-church-backpedalling-on-homosexual-agenda-part-one/) Church leadership feared that continued support of anti-homosexualsexual marriage measures would continue to generate negative publicity which in turn would limit the ability of its farflung missionaries to engage potential converts.
The Church wanted to be more welcoming to its members who are afflicted with same-sex attraction.
There are 5 nationally prominent Mormons in the U.S. today.
1. Mitt Romney had advocated for homosexual membership in the BSA since 1994 when he served on the BSA NEB. During this failed U.S. Senate campaign in 1994 against U.S. Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) he made pledges to improve homosexual rights that were more aggressive than Kennedy’s. As president of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee for the Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games of 2002, he banned local Boy Scouts from the Great Salt Lake Council from volunteering at Olympic venues. On his watch as governor of MA in 2003, it became the 1st state to legalize homosexual marriage (granted it was the state supreme court which mandated it). In 2012 he re-affirmed his support for homosexual membership in the BSA. Church leadership did not want to harm Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign by continuing its activities against homosexual marriage.
2. Harry Reid is a U.S. Senator (D-NV) and current Senate Majority Leader. He has energetically led all of POTUS #44 BHO’s policy positions in the U.S. Senate.
3. Glenn Beck is a libertarian/conservative talk radio host and media mogul. During 2012 he discussed his views about homosexual marriage on his radio show, “The Glenn Beck Program” http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/01/06/glenns-take-on-gay-marriage/ “I’m for civil marriage. All the rights, civil marriage, that’s fine. … My solution is take government out of marriage entirely. What is government doing in marriage? … You didn’t get married for tax deductions. … Our laws are based in Judeo‑Christian values and laws. That’s the way it’s set up. Now, you don’t like that; that’s fine. Then change the Constitution. Because you cannot pick and choose.”
4. Jon Huntsman Jr. is a past progressive governor (R-UT) and former ambassador to Red China under POTUS #44 BHO. In FEB 2013 he (1) announced his support of homosexual marriage and (2) signed the amicus brief of the plaintiff to oppose California’s Proposition 8.
5. Wayne Perry is the current BSA National President and co-owner of the Seattle Mariners. He personally pleaded the case with the Prophet of the LDS Church to support a change in BSA’s membership policy to accept homosexuals. This would be a major reversal of the Church’s position in 2000 when it heavily supported the BSA when the SCOTUS ruled in BSA’s favor in BSA v Dale.
The other question is are Mormon's using their influence in the Scouts to promote Mormonism? That would be a problem too.
They are doing the same thing every other religious charter organization is doing. You can't ding them for that.
Other Freepers on this thread and elsewhere on FR have pointed out that council delegates are selected by the the council executive committee (officers) with the guidance of the council scout executive. Most of these delegates are heavy financial donors to their local councils and are active, to some degree with Scouting. The largest councils only get ~15 extra delegates at the annual National Council business meeting.
There were several articles preceeding the vote which rang the fire bell that homosexualists were planning on crashing the annual National Council business meeting. From all the accounts I have read from those who were actually there, the secret ballot was rigidly controlled to prevent non-delegates from participating. Of the 1400 voting delegates, 1188 (~ 85% turnout) showed up to vote. While I am heartsick over the result, I have read nothing to indicate the voting process was compromised.
It's going to take a lot of troops asking the tough questions and making sure that they are sending the right delegates to reverse this. But it is possible.
Local units can only petition their local council executive board members. Sadly, "they" outnumbered "us" at the 5/23/2013 meeting. 50
The excerpt I am posting below comes from a delegate who was there. He is a leftist and probably voted for the new membership standard, but I have followed his posts for some time. I believe his account.
5/24/2013 – Eyewitness Account of the annual National Council business meeting.
http://listserv.tcu.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind1305&L=SCOUTS-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=382001
Subject: Re: "Say you want a resolution, well, you know ..."
From: Neil Lupton
Date: Fri, 24 May 2013, 14:10:56 -0400
>> As to the meeting, can we get any details of how it went? Was there any discussion, either from the dais or from the floor? Or was it all pretty much a "here is the resolution, go vote" situation? Was there any attempt or opportunity to bring up alternative resolutions or was Robert's Rules run roughshod over to keep things going the way they were scripted? How did the voting work out, with the multiple checks of registration and TSA-like security to get to the ballot box?
> Bruce in Blacksburg
Hello Bruce, Reporting from Texas.
There was, in my opinion, massive discussion. Wednesday evening from 5:30 to 7:30, I believe, there was an "information meeting". For a substantial part of the meeting, any voting member that wished could stand up and speak their mind, express their reservations or support or reasoning. Many did and the discussion had to be closed only because time was up.
There was also massive hallway discussion on the topic.
Thursday, I believe that the official "annual meeting" started at 9:30AM and ran till 11AM. Toward the close of the meeting, there were 8 speakers, two from each Region selected, I believe, by the region. They ranged from a Regional President to the mother of a four Eagle Scouts, one of whom is gay. Four were in favor of the resolution and four opposed. All speakers were loudly applauded. The National President complimented all speakers and voters over the two days for their courtesy and respect.
There was no opportunity given for amendment of the resolution or for discussion of alternative resolutions.
Voting then began at 11AM and ran till 2PM. When one checked into the meeting and registered, one went to a separate area to get one's voting credentials. One had to show government issued photo ID to get those credentials. When the voting began, one stood in line. To be admitted, one had to show the paper card credential and have it checked against the photo ID again. Each credential was bar coded. When one entered, a hole was punched in the credential. One then went to a second station where the bar code was read and an individual ballot printed out for the person. The top half had the ballot and the bottom half a signed statement with the name of that individual voter indicating that they had received one ballot for the election. One signed that statement and the ballot paper was torn in two and the voter was given the top, anonymous ballot form. One went to a voting booth to mark the ballot. The resolution was printed on the ballot and one simply filled in the box by "yes" or "no." One then left the voting booth and dropped the ballot into a ballot box and left the area. One could not be readmitted.
Voting closed at 2PM. All Scout related personnel were excluded from the voting area from 2PM to 5PM as a totally private firm was handling the voting and counting. We were told that this firm were strong experts in running voting including Native American tribes, labor unions, etc. It was said that no one from Scouting would know the results until 5:15.
The "results" meeting was at 5:15PM. Again, voters and non-voters were admitted. A prayer was said and the National President asked for agreement that whatever the result were, we would all work together for Scouting and there was loud applause.
The head of the firm running the voting came forward and made his certification that his firm gave 99.9% confidence that the results were accurate. He then handed a sealed envelope to the National President. The President then opened the envelope and read the results which were, I believe,
61.3% - yes
38.7% - no
There was, I believe, mild to modest applause.
The President then said that the meeting was over and we all left.
I have not heard anyone at the meeting suggest that the reported results were anything but an accurate vote and accurate count of the votes of the voting members. There truly was zero opportunity for hanky panky.
Best wishes,
Neil Lupton
I said “when” they score their first victory (there are some who believe they already have, with Vatican II), what do you do?
When they score that first victory, and turn the Church’s leadership to their side, do you cut and run or stand your ground and fight for the soul of a noble institution that has done so much good?
Do we abandon the Boy Scouts and all they have done for boys over the past century, or do we fight the corruption? It might be at the top, but that doesn’t make it particularly deep. I would instead suggest the opposite. We only have to replace a few of the very bad apples.
Maybe it was not your intent, but taken alone that statement makes it sound like the LDS is a victim or innocent bystander in this catastrophe.
To the contrary:
"..at the national meeting in May, a much smaller group of 1,200 delegates voted to approve the policy change. That change would have been resoundingly defeated but for one person: Wayne Perry, the National Board President. Perry, a Mormon, convinced many of his fellow LDS Church members -- one of the larger voting blocks of Scout Troop chartering organizations -- to support the policy change, suggesting that it would be better to bring young homosexuals into the tent to surround them with sound moral and ethical teaching than to exclude them."
"..."For the BSA, the misguided Mormon vote, combined with large representative voting blocs from the left coast and New England states, provided majority support for the homosexual policy change and the overturning of the "morally straight" clause of the Scout Oath."
The 'Gay Pride' Merit Badge
Gender Disorientation Pathology and the BSA
http://patriotpost.us/alexander/18532
Yep, the best way to get them to pay attention is if no one participates. Unlike government, we can choose to walk away. If we could all refuse to pay taxes to liberal-controlled governments, they would definitely have a rethink.
I believe strongly in freedom of association.
If your conscience allows you to associate with this organization, that’s your choice.
Mine doesn’t.
If you ever change your mind, and decide that there is no way you are ever going to reclaim the BSA from the sodomites, we’ll be busy building an alternative for you to consider.
http://www.youngminutemen.com/
It breaks my heart that my son was only able to participate through the Wolf level of Cub Scouts before the national leadership took us the wrong way. It also ends a relationship that I have had with scouting since 1972. I was a Cub Scout, a Scout, a Pack Leader, and then back to a den leader for the past 2 years when my son started. I was looking forward to going to Boxwell with my son... But alas...
We hate to do it, be we are voting with our feet and our wallets...
Thanks for the reply, I figured we would have heard stuff by now if anyone thought anything was fishy.
Freegards
The only thing that kinda sticks out is the firm that deals with reservations and unions doing the counting. But that is probably my bias.
The Scouts voting 61% for this isn’t a good sign for the USA as concerns the whole gay agenda, in my opinion.
Freegards
If your contentions are on the money, Scouting will likely cease to exist in any form.
I believe in 1910 it was started as Christian based but non-political. In the 1910 environment it was possible. In 2013, the environment is too convoluted for anything similar to BSA 1910 to gain much foothold, not because there are not enough who could participate, because there are not enough to tell their kid to turn off the vid-game.
A new Scouting could take a generation or longer to re-start. That is my reasoning to fight for Scouting NOW, not in some theoretical future.
If this big corporation won’t let go even when loss of members, loss of backing confronts them, then it will have to die to be re-born.
This thing is like cancer treatment, the cure can be as bad as the disease.
Agreed.
5/20/2013 – Results of the annual Gallup Values and Beliefs Poll were released. Gallup has asked Americans about their views on many of these issues each May since 2001. This poll was based upon telephone interviews conducted over 5/02-07/2013, with a random sample of 1,535 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia.
Implications
Americans have generally become more tolerant of a series of moral behaviors over the past 10-12 years. This trend is particularly evident in views of gay and lesbian relations and having a baby outside of wedlock.
Gay and lesbian relations in particular continue to be at the forefront of the news in the U.S. An increasing number of states have legalized same-sex marriage, and the Supreme Court has several pending decisions on same-sex marriage cases. This resulting increase in awareness of and attention being paid to the gay and lesbian community may be affecting Americans' views.
The change in attitudes toward having a baby outside of marriage may be an instance of attitudes following behavior, given recent Census Bureau data showing the increasing prevalence in American society of children born to mothers who are not married.
More broadly, Americans continue to evince a wide divergence of opinions about the moral acceptability of a number of behaviors. Americans are generally accepting of such things as birth control, divorce, embryonic stem cell research, gambling, sex between unmarried men and women, the death penalty, and having a baby outside of marriage. But they still disapprove of married men and women having an affair, cloning humans, polygamy, suicide, pornography, and teenagers having sex.
I think you have to be careful with opinion polls on this issue. If anyone wants to really know if the outlook on this is positive or negative they should just look at a list of all the states that have addressed the issue by popular voting, how liberal they are, what states have passed amendments around them, when they passed them and by how much. You know, actual votes as opposed to what one stranger says to another over the phone about what they think about ‘gay marriage.’ But when you do that, it still isn’t very rosy at all, in my opinion.
CA’s Prop. 22 passed by 61% in 2000 and Prop. 8 only passed by 52% in 2008, that’s losing 9% in 8 years. NC voted in theirs by 61% last year, basically tying the CA of 12 years before, something that would have made folks call you nuts if you would have told them that in 2000. All the states around NC passed their amendments by 75%+ except VA (57% in 2006) at least 6 years ago.
61% for the BSA isn’t a good sign, although they did reject adult gays to my understanding. Was that voted on?
Freegards
It certainly will be smaller. As others have pointed out on FR, Scouts Canada went down this same path in NOV 1998 when its board of directors, under the mantra of wanting to be more "inclusive”, decided to admit females, atheists, agnostics, homosexuals, bisexuals, and transsexuals into its boy scout program. Within 5 years Scouts Canada membership rolls dwindled to less than half what they had been - from 300,000 to 130,000. The Girl Scouts-USA is going through a rough patch of membership loss and financial problems right now, and they started down the path of Cultural Marxism in OCT 1991.
Of course, with Cultural Marxism flourishing in the U.S. now, we may see the Young Pioneer Movement sprout as an alternative to the BSA. The FEMA Corps graduated its first class in MS in 2012. FC is for young folks 18-24. Not hard to imagine FC creeping down in age in some mutation of the Young Pioneer Movement.
I believe in 1910 it was started as Christian based but non-political.
The early history is interesting. BSA was essentially birthed with the assistance of the YMCA. That rubbed the Roman Catholic Church the wrong way, but they got over it and came aboard in 1913. The LDS Church also embraced it in 1913 and adopted it as their official male youth organization.
In the 1910 environment it was possible. In 2013, the environment is too convoluted for anything similar to BSA 1910 to gain much foothold, not because there are not enough who could participate, because there are not enough to tell their kid to turn off the vid-game.
Poor parenting is certainly part of the problem.
A new Scouting could take a generation or longer to re-start. That is my reasoning to fight for Scouting NOW, not in some theoretical future.
Agreed with your timeline. But the dynamics of the National Council being led by Fortune 500 CEOs who are hellbent on "inclusion" is the death knell for BSA.
If this big corporation won’t let go even when loss of members, loss of backing confronts them, then it will have to die to be re-born.
Many here on FR share that opinion. I am paying close attention to OnMyHonor.
This thing is like cancer treatment, the cure can be as bad as the disease.
An appropriate analogy. With the 5/23/2013 vote, I consider BSA in Stage III. When homosexual adults are admitted within 1-2 years, it will be Stage IV but could prolong its life for a while longer.
It will be interesting to see what the SCOTUS says over the next 2 weeks on the 2 homosexual marriage cases before it - (1) CA Prop 8 and (2) DoMA.
The short answer is "no." On 6/07/2012 BSA spokesman Deron Smith said that the “local option” resolution would go through the NEB process and a recommendation made ready by May 2013 – in time for the next annual National Council business meeting. On 7/17/2012 BSA spokesman Deron Smith announced that after a 2-year study, an 11-member special committee returned a unanimous decision that BSA should retain its current membership policy excluding open homosexuals and atheists. The BSA National Executive Board (~62-72 members) announced on 1/28/2013 that it was preparing to revise the membership standard to include all open homosexuals at it next board meeting on 2/06/2013. This triggered a firestorm reaction from volunteers who opposed the NEB's intention. On 2/06/2013 – BSA spokesman Deron Smith announced that the NEB postponed its vote on the “local option” at today’s NEB business meeting. He also said it would be brought before the entire National Council voting membership for a vote at the next annual National Council business meeting over 5/22-24/2013. The BSA NEB immediately prepared plans to conduct surveys of members at all levels. In early MAR, BSA National began its 3rd Voice of the Scout Survey. On 4/19/2013, the National Executive Committee announced the results of the survey and presented its new membership standards resolution, i.e., BSA should accept open homosexual youth members, but not adults. And that was the resolution voted upon on 5/23/2013.
Thanks.
Freegards
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