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To: Cronos
What rubbish. The Roman Church was thoroughly hostile to the idea of the United States of America. Don't try to bulldoze me; I am an apostate of that Church and spent 12 years in Parochial school learning all the nonsense that you learned.

Four adherents of the Church of Rome signed the Declaration of independence? Not even close.

Like most of your "history" this is nonsense. The exact number is ONE: Charles Carrol.

Big Deal. How does that compare to the percentage of Christians who adhered to the Church of Rome in 1776? [Hint: insignificant]. What was their percentage in the entire country? [Hint: insignificant.] Where did the Scottish Enlightenment begin [Hint: a Protestant country.] How many of the founders were deists? [Hint: not that many.]

Attempts to claim Washington as a deist deny the many references he made to the intervention of Providence; hardly a deist position. They also ignore the fact that he was an habitual churchgoer, long after it was no longer politically or socially necessary. The Adams were Unitarians, which was not, until after Emerson's time, a deist philosophy. Yes, Jefferson was a deist, and so was Franklin. So I can see how you might be confused that there were huge numbers of deists among the founders: there were at least twice as many of them as there were Papists.

And by the way, there is even a question about whether Caroll was actually an adherent of the Church of Rome. There is some speculation that he was a Freemason. [His son actually was one.] That would have implied de facto excommunication.

What does Freedom of conscience mean to the Roman Church? Why, in fact, it is regarded as heresy. The Founders' belief in the separation of church and state has a special name in the history of the Roman Church. The heresy is referred to as Americanism.

Deny it.

Most of the Founders, and most of the Founders' ideas came from the English and later Scottish Enlightenments. Those ideas are ultimately founded in the rejection of an arbitrary temporal authority beyond human reason; and that idea in itself is a rejection of the Magisterium, the Pope, the Hierarchy, and Rome. Leo XIII knew this, even if you don't.

113 posted on 04/26/2013 11:57:57 AM PDT by FredZarguna (Which, sadly, Duane did not get to live to see.)
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To: FredZarguna
As usual, you are wrong

  1. There were no Baptists among the Founding Fathers --> there were
    1. Church of England/Episcopalian: 28
    2. Presbyterian: 8
    3. Congregationalists: 8
    4. Lutherans: 2
    5. Dutch Reformed: 2
    6. Methodists: 2
    7. Catholics: 3 (C. Caroll, D. Caroll & Fitzsimons)
    8. Deists: 7 (including Thomas Jefferson
    So perhaps since there were no Baptists, they shouldn't be considered (according to your statement) Americans?

  2. Evidently you never heard that Maryland was founded for providing religious toleration of England's persecuted Roman Catholics?

  3. Evidently you never knew that John Caroll had initially been a priest before devoting himself to the Revolution?

  4. Evidently you never heard of Fr. Pierre Gibault who pledged the support of the region of S-W Indiana to the USA (to Col. George Rogers Clark)?

  5. Evidently you never heard of the accomplishments of John Barry, a native Irishman who captained a number of ships during the war. Barry was the first to capture a British war vessel on the high seas; he also was wounded in a sea batter yet captured two British ships and fought the last battle on the seas of the Revolutionary war. He was George Washington's choice for commander of the US navy -- he was issued Commission Number 1 by Washintong and was not only the first American commissioned naval officer but also it's first flag officer

  6. Evidently you've never heard of the Marquis de Lafayette, a Catholic or the Polish captain Tadeusz Kosciuszko and both were key in the Revolutionary War?
  7. Evidently you never heard of Casimir Pułaski, a Pole who led Washington's cavalry and died in the battle for Savannah

  8. Evidently you never heard of the Catholic Philadelphia merchant Stephen Moylan who became Quatermaster General of the Continental Army?

  9. John Caroll says this about Catholic participation in the Revolutionary war (remember the country was only 1.6% Catholic):"Their blood flowed as freely, in proportion to their numbers, to cement the fabric of independence as that of their fellow citizens. They concurred with perhaps greater unanimity than any other body of men in recommending and promoting from whose influence America anticipates all the blessings of justice, peace, plenty, good orders, and civil and religious liberty"

The religious freedom fought for was also religious freedom for Catholics from Protestant England, hence the Catholic volunteers and support from Catholic Irishmen, Frenchmen and Poles.

118 posted on 04/28/2013 10:45:13 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: FredZarguna
Most of the Founders, and most of the Founders' ideas came from the .

Incorrect, they rejected the views of Cromwell and their ideas were from Greek and Roman democracy ideas down to the terms they used, Senatus and Congress from Latin and the methodologies used.

119 posted on 04/28/2013 10:46:52 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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