Skip to comments.The Great DHS Ammunition Stockpile Myth
Posted on 04/05/2013 6:42:29 AM PDT by Sir Napsalot
There are dozens of articles hyping government purchases of ammunition over the last nine months. After spending weeks researching this topic, this is a collection of commonly held myths that are based more on panic than fact.
With the recent release of a letter from the Department of Homeland Security to Senator Coburn, the numbers we calculated independently seem to corroborate the narrative coming from DHS. The concerns surrounding DHS stockpiling ammunition are nothing but more fear-mongering and largely unwarranted. For once, here are the facts to set the record straight:
MYTH: DHS purchased 750 million rounds of several different types of ammunition in August 2012.
FACT: The DHS contract never stated 750 million rounds at any time. It is a five year contract with a maximum purchase of 70 million rounds over the life of the contract. Military Times recently addressed this issue as well.
MYTH: DHS purchased an unprecedented 450 million rounds of .40 S&W 180gr hollow point bullets in 2012.
FACT: This is a standard five year contract that follows a historical purchasing pattern of DHS. Furthermore, it is not an unprecedented purchase by DHS. In fact, it is not even a purchase by DHS but by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE).
Starting in 2003, orders of 50 million and 225 million .40 S&W hollow point ammunition totaling 275 million rounds were purchased. After the expiration of the five year contracts in 2008, ICE purchased an additional 575 million rounds of .40 S&W hollow point ammunition with two separate orders (200 million and 375 million). Now, with the expiration of the 2008 contract, ICE has ordered a maximum of 450 million rounds over the next five years.
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
How does that create a bottle neck? We keep being told they signed an "up to" contract but the Feds aren't really buying.
That way when we hear they are "only" purchasing 70 million rounds instead of 700 million rounds, we'll go, "Whew. What a relief. That skeered me for a second."
Got anything to back that up besides an anecdote?
“Dont have the source handy but apparently once the purchases are in large enough quantities the price differential for hollow points gets a lot smaller.”
Why would the price differential change? If bulk buying gets a reduced rate for hollow point, wouldn’t bulk buying get a reduced rate for all ammuntion?
And even if the differential is less, when we are talking millions of rounds, isn’t paying any differential irresponsible?
I know the argument - train with what you use. But that’s not always reasonable. I was in the Army, and we always trained with ‘ball’ ammunition, instead of armor piercing. Even our tank rounds for training were not the same used in battle.
So why does this government agency differ...and get everything it wants?
This is one big circle.
The Feds made big purchase of ammo to save money.
Oh, is that why I can't buy any ammo at the store?
No, we didn't actually buy the ammo.
Then why did they give you a discount?
Because we made such a huge order.
The silly panic over DHS ammo purchases...
In fact it isn't silly at all. It may be the result of a misunderstanding or misinformation - but it isn't silly at all. No more silly than someone attempting to ridicule buyers into choosing to refrain from talking about it. That's curious.
More blame to the buyers:
For gun owners, the answer to "why is there an ammo shortage" can be found by looking in a mirror.
No blame anywhere but the buyers eh? I find it unusual that a FR poster would do so. You ain't from around here, are you?
Who bought all the rimfires and revolver ammunition? Who uses that much .38spl and .44spl anymore?
True the Marines originally purchased the light armored trucks then discovered they were not up to Marine standards and break down all the time so they got rid of them and the DHS picked them up.
Maybe Stilson can tell us why DHS needs 2717 light armored trucks to drive around our highways which are more than adequately protected by State, County and city police forces and why they need 7,000 full auto assault rifles.
Also interesting is the morphing explanation by DHS. First the ammo is for training. Now its just a bugetary matter.
Lastly, if they have no intention of purchasing 2 billion rounds of ammo why contract for it? They won’t get it cheaper if they dont take delivery.
Sorry Breitbart not buying it.
Showing me another blog entry is meaningless.
It is common to train with what you use in the field. When buying in these quantities, the price difference isn’t that great, especially if you only have to deal with the logistics of one type versus separate orders for fmj and hp, shipping to separate locations, storing separately, tracking separately, etc.
That would be an interesting logical exercise. You expect him to explain why DHS needs vehicles it didn't purchase in the first place?
It is US, the conspiracy nuts, who bought those up in a continuous feedback loop (ammo shortage).
When buying in these quantities, the price difference isnt that great,
“DHS didnt purchase them, the Marines did.”
The DHS isn’t the military. Military ammo would be bought by the war department, not the homeland dept.. However, this communist govn. does whatever they want.
Good reading on the root cause of the 2009 ammo shortage.
My guess is, the same principles apply this time around.
“Gunstores continue to be a never-ending source of hilarity. Walk into your local shooting emporium and ask why there is an ammo shortage, and you’ll hear inane speculation coupled with a conspiracy theory or two. The reality is that the supply chain for ammunition is relatively inelastic, and is easily overwhelmed by a sudden jump in sales...”
DHS didn't buy all those ammo (nothing out of the ordinary anyway).
I believe they are contracting all of it, not necessarily taking orders on it. I also don’t believe the amounts, if looked at annually over the history of purchases, is that great. (ie, I don’t buy the scare mongering).
I think it is one of two things.
1. Interrupt the supply chain to limit civilian purchases.
2. Government agencies with the attitude, if spending $1 billion dollars is good, spending $2 billion dollars is better.
If I was a manufacturer I’d demand a premium for this, not give a discount.
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