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Dishonest celibacy among Catholic priests is just as wrong as dishonest matrimony between protestant clerics. In the Catholic church, it has had disastrous results with young boys. Mandatory celibacy may be the root cause of two billion dollars to victims of priest-perpetrated sexual abuse.

What needs to be addressed is the practice of mandatory celibacy. Christ said it was never intended to be mandatory but was for a few chosen by God. This thinking needs to balanced with the idea that a few men are also chosen for the priesthood and marriage. This practice may have had its origins in the 12th century, where before, some popes handed the pope-hood to their sons.

The Catholic Church has had bizarre notions about sexuality from its early history. For instance, in the year 400, Council of Carthage decreed that bishops, priests and deacons abstain from conjugal relations: “It is fitting that the holy bishops and priests of God as well as the Levites, i.e. those who are in the service of the divine sacraments, observe perfect continence, so that they may obtain in all simplicity what they are asking from God; what the Apostles taught and what antiquity itself observed, let us also endeavor to keep... It pleases us all that bishop, priest and deacon, guardians of purity, abstain from conjugal intercourse with their wives, so that those who serve at the altar may keep a perfect chastity.”

We also know about the practice of castrating young boys so their voices would continue to sing in high notes when in 1599, Pope Clement VIII gave the ok for the production of castrati for such purposes. Why did they do this? Because of the Catholic Church’s distorted view of women and sexuality. This practice was done for about 280 years because women, who did have the vocal range, were forbidden to sing in the Catholic Churches.

What is important here is that the Catholic Church has held traditions that has lived in the fantasy world of utopian ideals. However, because of a learning process, the Catholic Church has learned that the earth is round and not the center of the universe. For the most part, it has grown to be an important force for the good of mankind. It is because of the church’s history of faults that its critics use to attack it. I just want the church to continue its positive role in human history by doing better.

I give the best Catholic teaching on marriage. It is called CASTI CONNUBII, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI ON CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE DECEMBER 31, 1930. If the Catholic Church would uphold the teachings of this encyclical, it would continue in its best traditions of upholding what is important for human destiny:

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11CASTI.HTM

Jonrick, your observations here are interesting and of course well-intended, and deserve to be considered thoughtfully. I'm afraid I won't do it justicve, because I'm soon to bed. But let me tuck in here jut a bit.

I am not convinced that celibacy is at the root of the homosexual problem. I think a vow of celibacy and a vow of marimony are about equally hard to live long term and in the right way. Neither vow provides impervious armor against unchastity, but both help --- with the grace of God.

In my opinion, as many men have sought "cover" for their homosexual liaisons under cover of wedding vows as under vows of celibacy. Surely in milieux where almost all adults were married and there was no real option for clerical celibacy (say, in Victorian London--- the Uranian pederast poets --- or in early 20th century England --- the Bloomsbury Group), most of the active gays were married men and woman. Oscar Wilde. VIrginia Woolf. John Maynard Keynes. Need I say more?

The phenomenon of castrati singers was far more complicated than you have written: and it was not a matter of the uptight Medieval church ideals warping the society, but of worldly Renaissance standards (especially the ideals of high art) infiltrating and warping the Church.

You must be aware that intentional castration was always against Church law. The practice was canonically condemned. But because a particular type of music dramatically benefited from castrato vocal qualities (sweetness, power, range), they became highly valued both in church choirs and in increasingly lavish secular musical productions.

This was not a a product of the Church Fathers --- you know that castrati were not eligible for clerical orders, and those who maimed boys could be excommunicated and turned over to "the secular arm" for dire punishment. Nor was it a product of the requirements of Medieval Music and the Gregorian Chant. The demand came from worldly Renaissance culture. It happened in violation of, not in accordance with, Church law.

Was there ever a vice that was not propagated by disobedient Catholics, swayed by their Zeitgeist, despising Divine and Natural Law, and given license by corrupt clerics? (Men of their times!!)

Good sport, though: citing people (including popes) who coarsely violated Catholic faith and morals, and then abhorring the corrupt creatures and blaming --- of course! --- Catholicism. I could go on, but --- sorry, Ive got to get to bed. Up early tomorrow.

Thanks for sparking this discussion.

Mandatory celibacy may be the root cause of two billion dollars to victims of priest-perpetrated sexual abuse.

A specious, at best, argument which provides no explanation for the behavior of public education employees or these Baptists or other protestants. None of these groups can use celibacy as a crutch for explaining their crimes. Why do you use celibacy as a crutch to explain the criminal behavior of perverts masquerading as Catholic Priests?

What needs to be addressed is the practice of mandatory celibacy.

What needs to be repeatedly addressed, and is every time someone like you makes these silly ill-informed arguments, is the ignorance people possess on this topic. I doubt you understand that no man seeking Holy Orders is forced to embrace celibacy. Celibacy in the Latin Rite is a requirement for ordination but it is a discipline that is freely embraced. If one discerns in the seven years, on average, they are in formation that celibacy is not for them they are free to seek another vocation. No one has a right to the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Also, 21 of the 22 Churches sui juris which comprise the Catholic Church, ordain, as a norm, married men. Those seeking ordination have 22 options, again proving your contention to be a false one.

This practice may have had its origins in the 12th century,

Although I doubt you'll be able to comprehend the following, you are in dire need of reading it. Unless of course you take great pleasure in exposing yourself on the web as a fool.

The Catholic Church has had bizarre notions about sexuality from its early history.

I suppose you consider the teaching in Scripture about sexuality as bizarre too, assuming that you are consistent.

For instance, in the year 400, Council of Carthage decreed that bishops, priests and deacons abstain from conjugal relations:

I suggest you familiarize yourself with Canons XXVII and XXXIII of the Council of Elvira, which predate Carthage by a century.

However, because of a learning process, the Catholic Church has learned that the earth is round and not the center of the universe.

It's telling that you skirt the issue of the Church and science but you make no mention that Copernicus, a Catholic Priest, championed heliocentrism 21 years before the birth of Galileo. Copernicus was attacked by protestants, including Luther, Calvin and Melanchthon. Kepler, a protestant, had to flee his country because he was attacked, unanimously, by the protestant faculty at the University of Tubingen for writing "damnable heresy". Kepler was given refuge by the Jesuits and given a teaching position in a Catholic university by the Pope himself. Incidentally, Aristotle and Ptolemy rejected heliocentrism.

I just want the church to continue its positive role in human history by doing better.

Sure you do. If anyone believes that nonsense, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Behind every double standard lies an unconfessed single standard.