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A Question for "conservatives" (Zot!)

Posted on 01/25/2013 8:05:16 AM PST by The_Freemason

I have a serious question for the "conservatives" on here. Why do you assume the GOP is conservative and why do you continue to support them? In he past 10 years the GOP has done nothing to prove they are a conservative alternative to the leftist democrats. They crow about fiscal restraint but GWB pushed the national debt to 10 trillion( don't throw out the Obama raised it 16, we know and it's not an answer). He started wars without congressional approval, gave us the TSA, Patriot act, warrantless wiretaps, drones flying over the country. Expanded medicare the list goes on. The current GOP is on the same bandwagon but does the same as the D's do. The GOP complains that the D's want a nanny state but they are no less intrusive. It's just that they want to control and determine your morals and values. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, Please.

The GOP claims to be for smaller gov't and personal freedom but I haven't seen either. If you truly believe in these ideals, IMHO the GOP is lying to you. I have been a Libertarian member for years. Only the LP actually believes in the idea of leaving you alone to live your life as YOU see fit. The LP would cut the budget into balance TODAY not 10 years from now (aka NEVER).

Maybe if more "conservatives" would stop worrying about what I ingest, who I marry and the like and examine what their party represents there could be a sea change in the country with 2 true competing visions for America. One based on free people, free minds and free markets and one based on planned markets, less freedom.

Ok, discuss amongst yourselves.


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KEYWORDS: libertarian; zot
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To: The_Freemason
Why do you assume the GOP is conservative and why do you continue to support them?

Because in the real world there is no alternative. The game is rigged, by centralized power and by big money. It's not like the early 1800's, when a new party could emerge.

The Dem's would LOVE IT if we tried to form a true Conservative Party. It would be like the Conservative Party in New York, but on a national scale. The non-Dem vote would be split, and the Dem's would sweep every election.

As sad as it sounds, our best hope is to try to nudge the GOPe in the right direction while hoping another Reagan emerges.

21 posted on 01/25/2013 8:25:31 AM PST by Leaning Right
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To: C. Edmund Wright

+1


22 posted on 01/25/2013 8:25:42 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Venturer
So far I am not impressed with Libertarians.

If the Libertarian Party could develop some leadership with Gravitas,
I'd consider it,
but the party itself has more flakes than Kellogg

23 posted on 01/25/2013 8:26:17 AM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Baynative

Wow, the day for absurd analogy continues.

Not Coke or Pepsi.....more like putrid water or cyanide. One will kill instantly, one will eventually kill, therefore potentially buying you time.

One is guaranteed death, one is the risk of death. But no, not coke and pepsi. Cute, but not applicable.


24 posted on 01/25/2013 8:26:45 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright
The GOP is awful, the Democrats are EVIL, and those are your choices.

Excellent observation. I should have included something like that in my post (#21).

25 posted on 01/25/2013 8:28:41 AM PST by Leaning Right
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To: The_Freemason
I have been a Libertarian member for years. Only the LP actually believes in the idea of leaving you alone to live your life as YOU see fit. The LP would cut the budget into balance TODAY not 10 years from now (aka NEVER).

If you're a libertarian, why are you appealing to conservatives?

When I was in Young Americans for Freedom, I had many encounters with libertarians. They always emphasized that "we are NOT conservatives, we are libertarians." The biggest issue that motivated them was the legalization of narcotics, which is not very high on the conservative agenda. Nor is legalizing prostitution, removing all restrictions on gambling, or keeping abortion legal.

26 posted on 01/25/2013 8:29:54 AM PST by Fiji Hill (Io Triumphe!)
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To: The_Freemason
It's just that they want to control and determine your morals and values. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, Please

When we cease to be forced to pay for the consequences of morals and values, then I will cease to care what others do in their bedrooms or put into/take out of their bodies.

The groundswell against drugs, abortion, and all that the "gay lifestyle" encompasses is largely (although not exclusively) a result of being forced to pay for the inevitable consequences and costs of those activities with our tax dollars.

I don't know why most libertarians don't seem to "get" this, but they don't.


27 posted on 01/25/2013 8:30:36 AM PST by chrisser (Senseless legislation does nothing to solve senseless violence.)
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To: Leaning Right

Your #21 was excellent, and the mention of Reagan is crucial. He fought these battles 50 years ago, and had a lot of heated arguments with Jesse Helms over it in fact. Reagan prevailed, and Jesse worked with Reagan to redefine the party and even Obama knows to this very day that Reagan is the man who not only influenced the party, he changed the trajectory of the entire country.

Reagan would be the first to tell you it would not have happened with another party. What people don’t want to admit is this: the problem is human nature, and that same human nature will reside in whatever third, or fifty third party, is conjured up.

Humans like power and they protect their turf. Thus, any political party will by definition DO THE SAME - unless somehow we can find some perfect people to run them. I haven’t seen too many of those around here, or anywhere.

ITS THE HUMAN NATURE, STUPID.....


28 posted on 01/25/2013 8:33:53 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: The_Freemason

I can appreciate your opinion of the GOP (I’ll add, however the “-e”) re: what they’ve done and are doing.

I’ve mentioned here multiple times about what a fool W was with the TSA and many of his ‘compassionate conservative’ intiatives (NCLB, medicare prescriptions, et al). He protected us from without, but forgot about the enemy from within (Democrats).

We conservatives, at least here in Georgia, have successfully now convinced Saxby Chamblis that he can’t win a run for the Senate in 2014. A major coup!

I am NOT, however, about to go full-blown nutball Libertarian, period. Many personal choices many people make I could care squat about. When it comes to, say, through tax dollars, pay for abortions, I’m against it.

Drugs....meth, cocaine, and the rest can do no good for society; they’re just misery in pill form. But, Big L libertarianism says that I shouldn’t care about it if it doesn’t harm me tangibly. The problem the tangibles is that they are a miasmic ether that disperses throughout society with dire consequences.

It is not traditional conservatism here that is the problem.


29 posted on 01/25/2013 8:34:07 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: The_Freemason
For a Libertarian it is perfectly acceptable for a gay bar to located across the street from a high school and to also have a liquor store right next door to same high school. Libertarianism would work if everyone was born 30 years old with a fully developed brain and morals. Unfortunately for the free wheeling Libertarians we share this world with minors and YES minors need to be protected so we adults cannot freely act like complete animals.
30 posted on 01/25/2013 8:35:19 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: chrisser
The groundswell against drugs, abortion, and all that the "gay lifestyle" encompasses is largely (although not exclusively) a result of being forced to pay for the inevitable consequences and costs of those activities with our tax dollars.

That and the fact that they're being forced on society by way of the schools and other taxpayer funded entities.

After all, its not just a coincidence that the communist party has listed virtually all of them among their goals. They know they're destructive to society.
31 posted on 01/25/2013 8:36:24 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Leaning Right
The Dem's would LOVE IT if we tried to form a true Conservative Party. It would be like the Conservative Party in New York, but on a national scale. The non-Dem vote would be split, and the Dem's would sweep every election.

That's not actually true. The Conservative Party in New York State runs the same candidates as the GOP in most if not all cases, so there's no danger of splitting the vote. It's just that the candidate knows what percentage of his support comes from the mainstream moderate GOP and how much from self-identified conservatives.
32 posted on 01/25/2013 8:37:01 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: Fiji Hill

My main problem with the LP is that they believe if America just minds its own business, that no foreign power will come and mind it for us. In a perfect world, libertarian would be the way to go. In an imperfect world, we must realize that America could not afford to go libertarian, until every other government went libertarian, at least with respects to foreign affairs.


33 posted on 01/25/2013 8:37:01 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: C. Edmund Wright; Baynative

I see big unconstitutional government as a beast to be feared. It seems to me that the Bush GOP grew government, both in size and power, just as much as the Obama Rats. Coke and Pepsi works for me.


34 posted on 01/25/2013 8:37:46 AM PST by jpsb
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To: highball

Yes, but thats NOT the model implied by the OP


35 posted on 01/25/2013 8:38:14 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: jpsb

You have a really perverted interpretation of “just as much” not to mention an incredible blind spot to how many Republicans were againt Bush every step of the way. Sorry, analogy still a fail,


36 posted on 01/25/2013 8:39:43 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: jpsb

....and let me add that your understanding that the Bush GOP ever had philosophical control of the government leads me to believe that perhaps you and I come at this with varied levels of understanding of what “control” of the government means.


37 posted on 01/25/2013 8:41:16 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: mnehring

30 years. PM as well. I do not ascribe to what I will call the Alex Jones Libertarians. My belief in the teachings and morals of the GATOU are part of my life, but they are mine and I will not attempt to force them upon others. I however believe in freedom of thought, word and personal deed. As did my brothers before me who founded this country.


38 posted on 01/25/2013 8:47:02 AM PST by The_Freemason (11/6/12....... I went to sleep in America and woke up in Venezuela)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Sorry, analogy still a fail

Unlike you I am a result orientated voter. I look at the results, not the motivations. My father long ago taught me that the "road to hell is paved with good intentions". Bush ruined the GOP for conservatives. There is no redemption from the hell brought upon us by Bush via the GOP. Obama is the Bush legacy.

39 posted on 01/25/2013 8:47:17 AM PST by jpsb
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To: The_Freemason; Jim Robinson
"Maybe if more "conservatives" would stop worrying about what I ingest, who I marry and the like"

So you're for homosexual marriage and legalizing drugs?

40 posted on 01/25/2013 8:49:41 AM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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