Posted on 12/21/2012 4:48:52 AM PST by jimbo123
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Boehner was near tears in announcing the failure to his colleagues, Republicans said.
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Boehner hoped he could keep the details quiet long enough for him to get Obama to agree to enough spending cuts to satisfy his caucus — and so that his leadership team could make the case for compromise in person.
But the details did not stay secret for long. Reports leaked out Saturday evening that Boehner had agreed to raise taxes on millionaires. That was followed by a more alarming leak Sunday evening that Boehner was also willing to grant Obama another increase in the federal debt limit. Home in their districts, unsuspecting rank-and-file Republicans were stunned.
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At that point, senior aides to those lawmakers began anxiously reaching out to GOP leadership staff wanting to know what had happened to the Boehner demand that every dollar in a debt ceiling increase would come with an equal cut in spending.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
No YOU are the type of GUTLESS OLD “Iowan” who would WILLINGLY plant your lips on the A$$ and start SUCKING of ANY Politician with an “R” next to their name.
For this to work the economy will have to hold steady after the increases. I don't think it's Keynesian to say that's unlikely. There are already increases in the Obamacare bill that will reduce employment and harm the economy. I think we will lose revenue.
I think a hike on those making over $1M might have raised some revenue without slowing the economy, but this general hike will not. And that would not have been nearly enough revenue.
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In a perfect (or at least fair) world, maybe. But we are not playing on a level field and the MSM will never give anybody on our sid ethe chance to get the truth out.
The war for public opinion is over for now and not only did we lose it but we got our asses kicked.
Witness the fact that obamski had the utterly despicable nerve to use the deaths of the children in Newtown to push his tax desires and not one word of objection or disgust about it came from the media...not one word.
He wants to go over the 'cliff'. He knows full well that the GOP will bear the blame, regardless of the truth.
He will then use the "obstructionist GOP House" as the reason for the economic failures to take back the House in 2014. "Give me a team I can work with and I will save the country" will be the election mantra.
It will work. He will get the House and use it with the Senate and SCOTUS, which are already in his pocket, to use his last two years to permanently change the Country Formerly Known As America.
That, my FRiend, is the game...the rest is smoke.
DITTO!!
Newsmax
Gingrich to Newsmax:
GOP Gave Obama Upper Hand
Friday, December 21, 2012 12:11 AM
By: Todd Beamon
Former GOP presidential candidate Newt Gingrich told Newsmax late on Thursday that he was perplexed by House Speaker John Boehner’s move to postpone the vote on his highly controversial plan that would prevent tax hikes for everyone except those making more than $1 million a year.
“I don’t understand what the strategy is of the House Republicans, so it’s hard to judge what they’re doing,” the former GOP House Speaker told Newsmax in an exclusive interview. “I don’t know what they’re trying to do.
“I’ve talked with several House members here today — and I don’t think many of them have any idea of what they’re doing. Literally have no idea,” Gingrich added. “Several members have no idea.”
“I’m not worried about this week or next week. I’m worried about four years from now — and I don’t see the strategy in place that is going to catch up with Obama,” he said...
http://www.newsmax.com/PrintTemplate.aspx?nodeid=468638
I saw that on F&F this morning. He was referring to Tea Party types. I thought, “You freakin’ moron! These are the people who GET IT! You, obviously, don’t have a clue...Obama sycophant.”
Screw this appeasement BS! I’d rather go down with both guns blazing that roll over for these POS liberals. America deserves better than that.
Ok, give us a couple of examples where giving the left what they wanted ever resulted in them giving it back.
Pro Life still means Pro life, but Republican no longer means low taxes or small government or freedom from government spying or right to trial by your peers (NDAA, Patriot Act) or right to property (Kelo, punitive taxes on the rich).
(1) Obama is not willing to make real, substantial, painful spending cuts.
(2) Our fiscal problem is a result of over-spending not under-taxing.
(3) The federal government cannot spend a dime without the approval of the Republican-majority House of Representatives.
(4) There is no fiscal “cliff” in the sense that anything earth-shattering will happen when the ball drops and the new year begins (taxes and spending are frequently changed retroactively and that can happen months into the new year).
(5) Conservatives have in the past fallen for deals involving promised spending cuts that never materialized.
(6) The sequestration caused by over the cliff is not all that radical, except to the Beltway crowd. But it would make a real dent in spending and would only reduce defense spending to 2006 levels (in real dollars, i.e., adjusted for inflation since then).
(7) It is bad for the Bush tax rates to expire across the board but if we aren’t willing to see that happen, we will never achieve real meaningful spending cuts.
(8) Negotiating on your back foot, telegraphing that you must reach a deal at all costs and cannot conceive of walking away from the table is a no way to negotiate - anyone who has ever done a serious negotiation of any kind knows that.
Putting this all together:
(1) We need a new Speaker.
(2) We need to go over the Cliff.
(3) After going over the Cliff, we need the House to only approve spending that it deems appropriate and if that leads Obama to shut the government down, as it surely would, then so be it.
“I think a hike on those making over $1M might have raised some revenue without slowing the economy, but this general hike will not. And that would not have been nearly enough revenue. “
I guess we disagree here. Trying to extract money from the very rich is next to impossible, as they have the means to get around higher taxes (including lowering their income, moving income, moving abroad, putting it in trusts, etc.). Almost certainly it will be a net revenue loss if implemented just on $1M and up, which is why, other than France, just about every other country taxes the rich at a lower rate than we do (remember, we have to include Medicare and State/Local taxes). The rich have options and people at $1M plus have lots and lots of options.
The poor and lower middle classes do not have options, the upper middle class has some options, but not many. The only question is whether economic activity will decline if taxes are raised across the board from the level they’re at now. Maybe, maybe not.
I do know, FOR SURE, that no one in the media (other than Rush) was saying that the country would get thrown into recession if Clinton raised taxes in 93, essentially across the board - and Rush was wrong there (a rare occasion). The country, like it or not, did fine under Clinton. What kills the country is when massive regulations are imposed, as happened under Nixon and then Bush Sr. That stops investment in its tracks and forces business to use that money for compliance.
The reason that I think we’re being jerked around with the doomsday predictions is two-fold. First, as mentioned above, very few expected the Clinton tax increases to hurt the economy - and essentially they didn’t - and this will, pretty much, be a repeat of those same increases. Second, no one in the media was willing to say that Bush Jr.’s tax cuts would help the economy - so how can rescinding them now cause a recession? In other words, we’re being LIED TO...in some way.
As to whether the Bush tax cuts actually helped the economy, that can be debated. I submit it was the juicing of super-low interest rates and loans to deadbeats that did much, much, more. That spiked real estate and that carried the economy. Of course building 10,000,000 plus houses that no one needs will cause a problem later on - and it has.
All I see here on FR is hate Boehner, hate Boehner with no consensus on what Freepers want, it’s simply, hate Boehner.
>> I haven’t heard from you (yet) how this failure strengthens Republicans.
Fair enough. Let me try:
The Republicans, self-serving ineffectual short-sighted weak-willed douchebags that they are, aren’t operating from a position of strength.
However, they DO have some “gunpowder” that they need to keep dry, to wit, the power of the purse. Specifically, right now, they can bring the Kenyan monkey’s government to its knees by failing to authorize an increase in the debt. They can also bloody The One’s nose in other fiscal ways. IF they hang tgether — admittedly, an outside chance for such a group of losers as the house (R)s.
By NOT squandering that powder on a dumb deal, they at least retain what little strength they have, so that they can use it more wisely to obtain some REAL spending reductions, not that fake smoke and mirrors crap that blue-lips is promising.
IF they are able to stand together and, through force of character and wisdom, effect some REAL spending reform, they WILL gain in respect and goodwill from the electorate — e.g. they’ll increase their strength.
But as soon as they shoot their wad on one or another of Boner’s Obama-buttkissing deals, they lose ALL the leverage they USED to have.
You are correct, and I was wrong along with Rush.
However, Clinton raised taxes in a surging economy. We don't know whether he helped, hindered, or had no effect on the result, only that the result wasn't precipitous. Personally, I think it slowed things, but was like putting a bicycle in front of a speeding car.
If taxes go up next year, they will do so in an economy that is not keeping up. Growth is not enough now to add as many jobs as we have graduates each year, let alone to re-hire the many people off work. In that case, I think it will be like putting a car in front of a speeding bicycle.
I think the only solution is to reign in spending. I agree with you on regulations, but I consider that a kind of spending. Back Washington down, and things will improve. I don't think you can get there by taxing.
I hope you're right, but I'm afraid you're not. I think what they did yesterday was the equivalent of cracking the safe by blowing it and all its contents to kingdom come. The result is they have nothing left for the debt ceiling negotiation.
IF they hang tgether — admittedly, an outside chance for such a group of losers as the house (R)s.
Exactly. This was an instance where the big news will be that Republicans can't even get along with themselves. No wonder they can never do anything "bi-partisan" (code for caving in to Democrats, I know).
Hate is way too strong of word, and I despise it when it is thrown around so casually. Nobody around here who is a real Conservative likes Boehner because he has repeatedly surrended to Obama and worked to either undermine or stifle the TEA Party members of his own caucus. Hopefully, this latest debacle will be the end of his Speakership.
What’s the point of controlling Congress if we are just going to rubber-stamp the president, as you suggest?
Might as well just hand it back to Pelosi in that case.
...which will likely happen with your strategy as millions of conservatives like myself won’t be able to find a reason to vote Republican in 2014.
How about we stand on PRINCIPLE, for once? You might even be surprised by the support we get. Remember, mid-term elections is about getting YOUR BASE out - not trying to win-over the lentil eaters, so even if down in the polls we can still pick up seats...and I think the conservatives in the House now realize that.
>> I hope you’re right, but I’m afraid you’re not.
If I could predict the future with certainty, I would quit my day job. :-) But for the time being I’ll pull for what is the “righteous” (in a biblical sense) course of action. The current fiscal course is unsustainable — kicking the can down the road is putting off the inevitable, and worsening it — and the only just course of action is to confront our profligacy head-on, take our pain, and rebuild.
>> I think what they did yesterday was the equivalent of cracking the safe by blowing it and all its contents to kingdom come. The result is they have nothing left for the debt ceiling negotiation.
I don’t get that. Not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t understand the logic. Yesterday they didn’t “do” anything — how does that blow the safe?
AWESOME - PERFECTLY STATED.
Outstanding. You get it. It amazes me that so many people on this site are taking the Plan B bait.
“However, Clinton raised taxes in a surging economy. We don’t know whether he helped, hindered, or had no effect on the result, only that the result wasn’t precipitous. Personally, I think it slowed things, but was like putting a bicycle in front of a speeding car.”
I agree with the above...Clinton may have dampened the growth, but the bottom line is that while taxes certainly have some effect, it can be overblown and politicized. In this case, people are looking at, at most, a 10% increase in taxes. If they pay at 20% now, that means 2% less take-home pay. It’s not like their taxes are going to double Jan 1. It’s not that huge of a hike - that’s why I’m angry that people are taking the bait that the tax increases will throw us into recession - we’re either going that way or we’re not. The tax rates are on the margins.
“Exactly. This was an instance where the big news will be that Republicans can’t even get along with themselves. No wonder they can never do anything “bi-partisan” (code for caving in to Democrats, I know). “
I thought the Republicans got along fine, almost to the person. It’s just one troublemaker, who the Republicans were stupid enough to make Speaker. He’s out of credibility now - he, no doubt, promised the caucus that President-Elect Romney would be naming his cabinet by now - as long as we caved on everything Obama wanted.
Didn’t work.
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