Posted on 12/10/2012 7:09:25 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Texas is waiting for President Obama’s reaction to a petition demanding it be allowed to secede from the United States. They may have to keep waiting.
Sunday marked the last day for Texas’ petition to secede from the union to gather 25,000 digital signatures, the number needed to warrant a response from the White House. The virtual petition achieved that goal four weeks ago. Now it’s up to 119,209, but still no word from the Oval Office.
A White House official told ABC News in November that it would respond to the petition, following a procedure that demands they address any entry to the “We the People” site that rallies the requisite amount of support. On Friday, the White House said they had no prediction for when they might put out at statement.
Even if the White House steps up to the plate this week, it’s possible they will dodge the question, opting to excuse themselves by claiming it does not fall within their jurisdiction.
In the days after President Obama was reelected, several states filed petitions seeking independence alongside Texas. And these petitions gained clicks fast.
By mid-November, every state had at least one petition with more than 150 digital vows of support registered with the White House. Some visitors to WhiteHouse.gov started counter-petitions, asking that the president stop states from seceding.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Adding to your post...
It’s called an Article 5 convention.
“...on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States...”
IMO, this convention could also abolish the federal government.
IF this were to work...In theory, the Texas Legislature in 2013 would have to suspend regular business, or wait till the regular session ended, and the governor (Perry) would have to call a special session to address this issue of separation from the Union first and foremost...
To which the democrats (in this State) would not attend that debate...Which would be fine by me...
Let’s say this all goes down the way some wnat it too...
The state passes this legislation, or puts a referendum on a ballot for a special election to appease the citizens of this state, it passes and the governor signs it...
Our US delegation could then be recalled, ambassador to be assigned, etc etc etc...
Territorial waters and borders to be defined and certified...
Looking beyond the obvious need for a defensive force to be organized from the remnants of the Federal DoD forces who decide to stay in Texas before the United States demands it’s military hardware to be removed from within our borders...etc etc etc...
I would expect that our state investments, both private and government, assets will be confiscated as well...
We need to anticipate that the infrastructure, both industrial, and commercial businesses to decide whether or not to remain within our borders and either keep on chugging, or pull up stakes and get out because of US Federal pressures (i.e.: tax their arses for remaining in Texas)...
The economic impact on Texas, if it decides to go alone will be tremendous...But, I think the alternative is just as difficult...
We will see a massive (personal) migration, both in and out of our boundaries...But, I see a lot of heavy industry coming back to do business with our Republic in short order...But I would not put money on it just yet...
I do not see any kind of military threat to this state if it did go this way...It would not benefit anyone to proceed in that direction at this time...
So...
What needs to be well defined is this...
What are the specific political/economic/social ramifications, both positive and negative for such decisive political action by our state government???
Do we continue to utilize a weakened American economy (i.e.: US dollars) to be our form of currency???
Will the money (revenue/taxes) that we normally would send to D.C. (Feds) be enough to offset the immediate economic impact that a separation from the Union???
(Note: Texas is a revenue negative State, meaning that we send more taxes to D.C. than we get back in federal assistance for various programs...)
Also, the folks that decide to stay in the Republic of Texas, may be impacted more by this because of the need to establish infrastructure, that in some ways might be detrimental at first, because if we model our Republic after the United States model, we may very quickly discover that that model is a failed one at best, and be behind right from the gert go...So something else, or some type of graduated system and priorities might be necessary to keep from sinking too fast, too soon...Think about that...
I think there is a lot to be thought out first, and there is a lot more I would like to say, but it is sufficient to say that I, personally, am not opposed to the idea of separation...We are in some pickle to begin with...And we may very well need to actually build our own lifeboat first before we abandon ship...
But, I do not see the political courage in Austin in anyone we have elected to represent us in that Capitol introducing, much less do the prep work needed to really make this work...
So I do not expect, nor does the administration or any other government (elect) official even giving this petition any creedense or answer at all, anytime soon...
Why should they??? they have already turned this issue into a fluke, a joke and anyone associated with it as racist bigots and sour grape losers, of an election where they failed to unseat a very popular President (Santa Claus) that gives his supporters trinkets for their support...
All in all, this is a nation that HAS lost its virtue, both spriritual and human virtue, in that right is wrong, and wrong is right...
Does Texas, or any other state considering this endeavor deserve God’s mercy, grace and blessings to re-constitute under his guidance and laws??? Think about this one, because this is most important!!!
Again, I am not opposed to the idea, but we had better get our act together, before wasting our time with sending a “petition” to King George expressing our grievances, that will, and has fallen on deaf ears already...
It is probably a GOOD thing that the petition was “Ignored”.
We would not want to wake up one morning and find out that the entire state of Texas had been nuked by Obama because his feewings were hurt.
Also remember that a Constitutional Convention can and would be represented by political elements that are detrimental to our goal of restoring virtuous government representation and processes, in the form of government we have at this time...
So I am cautious about what some folks hope for on this particular issue...
The mechanisms for what some want in this discussion about this petition, those goals desired, need significant preparation (socially, fiscally and morally) more than what a (this) petition (might) generate(s)...
BTW, I am not a big Bible thumper type person...But the moral, the virtuous, mindset is one that needs to be thought (prayed) about first and foremost...
We have a government and people that have lost their way...Restoring that virtue may be what repairs the union we have in place now...But that may not happen overnight, and even if it did, would it be sustainable???
Think about it...
Just for fun, and not to make lite of the issue, a part of me itches for a fight...I do want to engage the evil that has consumed and literally spit out the courage and virtuous nature of the founding principles of what this country was founded upon...That is my dilema...It is both a personal and spiritual battle to me...But I need to find something that removes my doubt, my concern about any ounce of futility to what will result from my decision...And that may be more common to others here as well...
So...
What are YOU prepared to do about this???
And...
What are YOU willing to sacrifice to achieve this victory???
These are personal and rhetorical question each and everyone of you need to choose to answer...
The reality of your decision will end up being a personal future YOU (and you alone) will have to accept responsibility for, and more important, be accountable for...
Some of us have made a decision before, and that which we have taken an oath to defend has been cheapened by others with alterior motives and agendas...
So another question is this:
Do we allow the secular and un-virtuous citizenry, not just their representatives, destroy the Union as we understand its duties to be???
Or do we demand that those in the future be very clear and unambiguous to what and where the station of Federal government should return to???
As long as we still have the mechanism to effect change every two years (Federally), we can still do this...But those that desire to represent us need to re-commit to the originalist foundations and restrictions placed upon that office (government entity) within our ratified Constitution...
And deviation from that virtuous principle(s) should be rejected with ALL due prejudice!!! Nothing less should be acceptable...
BTW, if anyone likes what I have written here today wish to do so, in whole or in part, you are very welcome to do so, take this to your elected officials, whther they be democrat, republican or independent...These are your words, these people need to hear directly from you...
I intend to take these words to my congressman when he comes back from D.C. for the Christmas holidays...I have already set up an appointment to see him in his district office, and I intend to deliever this “idea” to him, all kidding aside...
Then put him in a headlock, and give him a big “noogie” for being such a political putz...;-)
We can still turn the ship around, we just need to encourage a change of perseption and re-focus these representatives up and down the chain of command before it is too late...I still believe in the Union, but I do not see a permanent/negative outcome from a separation movement within the state of Texas, or any other state at this time...
This is just my opinion and thoughts, therefore open for flames, and other sources of agreement or dissagreement...Any hurt feelings are of no personal concern to me, I grieve for the lives that have been lost in maintaining this Union, if we fail to correct the course this nation is on right now...
So if I were to Bible thump, I would say this...
God does want to bless and love this nation, but we need to return to a virtuous mindset before I believe we will return to his good graces...That is where our fight really lies...
Q: Doesn’t the Texas Constitution reserve the right of Texas to secede? [BACK TO TOP]
A: This heavily popularized bit of Texas folklore finds no corroboration where it counts: No such provision is found in the current Texas Constitution[1] (adopted in 1876) or the terms of annexation.[2] However, it does state (in Article 1, Section 1) that “Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States...” (note that it does not state “...subject to the President of the United States...” or “...subject to the Congress of the United States...” or “...subject to the collective will of one or more of the other States...”)
http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm
READ MORE ABOUT TEXAS Secession...
that's different...Texas was an independent republic, actually a separate country when it elected to join the union. If Canada elected to join the union, I do believe that they would have the right to unjoin it down the road.
You don't ask for permission to secede from the federal government. Texans are joining the Texas Nationalist Movement in great numbers - meetings are being held in many Texas cities. The Texas legislature meets in January and that is where TNM is working to get a bill submitted.
Join us on the steps of the State Capitol on January 8th!
It's possible, however very unlikely. The Convention would be and should be limited in scope. And keep in mind this process really just puts amendments on the table that then must be ratified by the states. This is the part that those that fear a Constitutional Convention do not understand. Yes libs may attempt to propose left wing amendments but the kicker is they would NEVER be ratified by all the red states. This is where and how we WIN! This is how we take our liberty back and put the federal government back under the rule of law. It's taken over a century for the left to find and exploit the weaknesses in the original text of the Constitution. Just think what an amendment that clarifies and strictly limits the federal governments authority over interstate commerce would do to defang the beast. Half the government laws and regulations would disappear overnight. My own opinion is to ELIMINATE the interstate commerce clause completely. If anyone is interested in learning more about amending the Constitution through convention I strongly suggest downloading and reading this from the Goldwater Institute.
http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/amending-constitution-convention-complete-view-founders-plan-part-1-series
You can download the series in .pdf format. The link is just below the executive summary.
Your fears are unfounded. Yes there would be some attempts from the left to introduce left wing ideas but the left is so outnumbered they would not get off the ground. Even if they were able to propose some liberal amendment it could NEVER be ratified.
This is the very reason the democrats block any attempts to bring a balanced budget amendment to a vote of the people. THEY KNOW IT WOULD BE RATIFIED BY THE STATES AND THEY WOULD BE POWERLESS TO STOP IT!
If you fear a Constitutional Convention you do not understand the weakness of the left. The simply DON'T have the numbers. They never have. They fear the will of the people more than anything.
A Constitutional Convention allows the will of the people to be voted on.
Secession is a huge loss even if it succeeds. Why on earth would we want to give up huge parts of the country? Wouldn't it be better to actually have California as part of our country AND have them abide by our Constitution? Imagine ALL the states actually following the constitution. We can have that again.
“Your fears are unfounded.”
I have no fear...What ever gave you that idea???
I seriously question YOUR confidence, and YOUR enthusiasm to convene such a mechanism to “change” the Constitution “as-is” to somehow better fit today’s environment...
I DO NOT trust YOU to even be considered to be a delegate to such a gathering to promote such an agenda...If that is what YOU seem to be extremely excited about in this case...
HOWEVER, the Constitution “as-is” IS very much up for debate (discussion) to fomulate a BETTER UNDERSTANDING of it’s original intent, application, regulation and restrictions placed upon the government WE the people send our peers to do the countries business...
And somehow YOU believe getting ALL the people together to tell the elected cadre (seated now) what they are going to do will somehow force them to do, what we tell them to do???
Your confidence in the left’s weakness is absolutely unfounded...Did you get some sort of memo to the “real” results of the general election last month???
And you feel it is acceptable to allow representation from that “left” to sit at the table to discuss how to better do things in D.C.??? I reject/refuse to introduce a process to give the left ANY chance to throw their monkey wrench into the already damaged gearbox...
Doing so would absolutely allow it to never come to fruition a Balanced Budget Amendment at this particular political time and environment!!!
As a point of order, what state do you live in??? I believe that would explain a lot about you and your motivations...
Now for the real debate...
“Secession is a huge loss even if it succeeds. Why on earth would we want to give up huge parts of the country?”
[Giving up??? I hope you realize, and understand that my state (Texas) is a “revenue negative” state...We send more tax dollars to D.C. than what “we” get back in Federal funds for manicures and pedicures, and that most of “us” in the know, feel it is time to send less to the Feds and other states to benefit “their” welfare state and all the entitlements and overspending, waste, fraud and other nonsense that revenue supports...You are most correct to note that getting the budget balanced IS a very good and proper thing to do!!! And until that is accomplished, in our regular processes, I reject any attempt to muddy the waters with changes to the standing procedures, and risk allowing it to be that much more difficult to do so...]
“Wouldn’t it be better to actually have California as part of our country AND have them abide by our Constitution?”
[”Really??? I have a bookie in Vegas that wouldn’t entertain those odds...California needs to turn itself around, and not on the backs of the rest of us who have been placating the abuses they perpetuate on the rest of us at the same time...I do not as much blame the people of that state, but more the culture of corruption and unrealistic expectations THEY have that somehow THEY deserve more and more help from Uncle Sam to stave off the inevitable collapse, and unsustainable feduciary vacumn that is draining the rest of the country with it...And THEY are not alone in those abuses!!!]
“Imagine ALL the states actually following the constitution. We can have that again.”
[You ARE CORRECT!!! But until we have a real return to “virtuous” people representing us at ALL levels of government, we cannot expect that to happen, there is too much menusha and nonsense going on that honestly I do not see anything but a total economic collapse will make an impact on the psychy of our population...The idea of somehow there is this assumption that government can fix a problem IT ALONE CREATED, is begining to wear down the intelligence of the majority of people on both sides of the aisle...And democrat/liberal/progressive/socialists are sucking up the remaining intelligence this country has in its coffers!!! To me that is unacceptable, and that is why I believe it is proper to discuss a separation from this failing system to get the message across...]
In conclusion, I have only one request...
Do not question my loyalties, patriotism, or fears again...
I do not fear any man, but I do have concerns, that the fears and agendas of others, with good intentions, that might gain enough traction with people of politically apathetic attention spans, will base their emotional responses and votes on the messages with underlying destructive, but well-meaning intents...
I have to respect the left in only that they have the attention of many people who DO NOT pay attention to what is going on past American Idol, Survivor and other nonsense coming through the boob tube these days...
Why give them a chance to make it even harder to correct the course of this ship???
/rant
I have to wonder if this gets a response from the WH, something has to be rotten in Denmark...
Second, I did not question your "loyalties, patriotism, or fears" but your response sounds a little overly emotional and defensive. This is a political discussion about Secession not an attack you your personal beliefs.
Lastly....... Lighten up Francis.
Correct. It's meaningless -- secession is achieved by an action of the People themselves, acting as their States (NOT the "state government", because [state gov't.] does not equal [State] does = People), to dissolve their compact with the other States.
During the 1832-3 Nullification Crisis, when secession came to the fore as a possible remedy for the constant attempts by the industrial Northeast to impose strong tariffs on the import trade to support the Millocracy, Daniel Webster and other political theorists changed their language about the Constitution and their theory of the Union, to make the Union into a deadfall trap, which once entered into became an unbreakable beartrap of permanent and eternal Union even against the wishes of the People.
Webster et al. were simply catering for the desire of the Millocracy and manufacturers for a permanent, captive customer base whom they could charge high prices without recourse for the buyers.
Lincoln enforced their "New Deal", "living" Constitution by armed violence.
It would, if you kick the pervs and parasites, the Sodomites and sojourners.
Lots of Mexicans come here only to work, and in doing so depress wages for their U.S. Citizen cousins. Others come just for the freebies. Time for them to go home.
Time for the perverts to go buy Paraguay and show us all how it's done by really fabulous people who know ever so much more than we do.
Time for the East Bay Communists to go away or go to the wall. Maybe they can go administer Fabulous Paraguay.
Sure, lighten up, no prob bob...But rememeber YOU came after me with some very questionable divergences...
Emotion??? Defensive??? Guess you need to read a little deeper yourself as well, learn to comprehend nuances, subtleties, etc etc etc...You get a pass for now...
BTW, YOU did not answer my question...What state are YOU currently residing??? It will help put a few things in context...Help us understand where ya comin’ from...
Ball is in your court...
I came after you. Are you kidding?
Please quote for the listening audience exactly where I "came after you" and the "questionable divergences" you are so upset about.
I read your posts, and you have some very valid points about the topic of secession but your response to me was a little off the wall. Maybe you just read my original post in a way that was not intended on my part, and if you took that as a personal attack in some way, I do apologize.
That being said you can't be thin skinned when discussing this stuff, it's not productive.
Now back on topic.
The reason I feel strongly about a Constitutional Convention is because it's really nothing more than a different method of proposing amendments. The founders gave us this option for a reason and that reason is to correct the path of the central government when they refuse to do it themselves and we have arrived at that point. An Article 5 convention is far less drastic than secession or civil war. With Secession you are actually talking about the break up of the United States. Why would we want that? The blue states like California and the entire east coast are only a problem because left wing loons are running them with money from the conservative red states. We however outnumber the left wing loons easily 3 to 1. They only have power because they have spent decades taking over key positions in our society while we limited government types were minding our own business.
As little as three amendments could bring back limited government to the entire country. The red states have the power and numbers to ratify these changes with almost no chance of left wing proposals being ratified.
We must use our numbers to take back our freedom. It will never happen through the standard electoral process. Other countries that decay into socialism don't have the options that we do but time is running out.
Texas is a Red state at this time but that is changing fast. Trust me, the left is doing everything they can to take this state. Without Texas we have little chance of ever regaining liberty through peaceful means. In my opinion, amending the Constitution if far preferable to the break up of the country.
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