Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Cronos
I am more than willing to stand corrected and I hope what you say is true. I got the impression that Jews were basically left to their own devices during the resistance against the Nazis because Polish freedom fighters didn't want Jews in their ranks. Also that Jews fled Poland to Palestine in the early 1900s because of persecution in Poland?
20 posted on 11/29/2012 11:11:26 AM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]


To: Sam Gamgee
I got the impression that Jews were basically left to their own devices during the resistance against the Nazis because Polish freedom fighters didn't want Jews in their ranks -- not really: the Armie Krajowa (the polish underground army -- and remember Poland was the only nation conquered by the Nazis that never surrendered officially and didn't collaborate at a national level -- the reason is also because the GErmans wanted to destroy the Polish nation -- whether Jewish Poles or Christian Poles)

Anyway the AK had a section for Jewish affairs -- the head of which, Henryk Wolinski is in teh Yad Vashem

These provided information about Jewish ghetto formations, slave camps, movements to Treblinka to the US and UK's government and mass media -- but this was ignored by the governments and mass media

Have you heard of Jan Karski or Witold Pilecki? Witold broke INTO Auschwitz and gathered information on the atrocities there -- and Jan took this to Churchill and FDR who ignored him

The Jewish Combat Organization ( Żydowska Organizacja Bojowa) received some weapons from the AK and the AK units tried twice to blow up the ghetto wall and one unit under Henry Iwanski fought alongside the ZOB Jewish unit

I've read Leon Uris' Mila 18 too and that was my first book on Poland -- years before I met my wife and years more before I moved here and learnt about the history around this --> he brings up a view of an American Jew who didn't see the situation on the ground -- Szpilman (the Pianist) gave a different perspective

Leon Uris doesn't point out that the AK didn't have a great stack of weaponry -- they didn't get much weaponry from the WEst and none from the Soviets (who viewed the anti-communist AK as the enemy alongside the Nazis). Note what happened in the Warsaw Uprising a year after the ghetto uprising -- the Germans were retreating and the AK rose up to throw them out. But they couldn't -- their weapons etc. were not enough and 70% of warsaw was razed to the ground (yes, the city is completely rebuilt)

24 posted on 11/29/2012 8:53:53 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies ]

To: Sam Gamgee
I got the impression that Jews were basically left to their own devices during the resistance against the Nazis because Polish freedom fighters didn't want Jews in their ranks -- Also the problem with this is that we need to read the other conflicts around this -- do read Adam Zamoyski's "Battle of Warsaw 1920" --> in 1920 the Soviets tried to conquer Poland and were beaten back. Poland hated the communists as much as they hated the nazis and the communists realized that Polish nationalism was a block to them

The ZOB was leftist-leaning (not communist) which affected relations with that organization -- but there were still weapons supplied by the AK to ZOB.

There were also many Jews in the Polish Resistance: MArek Edelman, Henryk Chmielewski, Shlomo Aronson, Szmul Zygielbojm , Julian Aleksandrowicz

25 posted on 11/29/2012 8:58:04 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies ]

To: Sam Gamgee
Also that Jews fled Poland to Palestine in the early 1900s because of persecution in Poland?

Ok, one needs to understand the history -- in the early 1900s Poland didn't exist - it ceased to exist from 1793 to 11 Nov 1918

There was persecution in the Russian occupied parts of Poland and to some extent in the other two -- as I mentioned above

note the other BIG reason: the rise of nationalism since the French revolution --

in 1783 only 10% of France spoke what we call "French", the Russians were ambivalent about nationality (there was even a proposal to rename the country Petersland after Peter the great), the English had a number of dialects as well as Celtic languages etc. and Germany didn't exist

But in the 1800s nationalism arose and the Russians, French, Germans and English forced their minorities to conform -- the Russification of the Baltic Germans, Poles, Baltics, Finns etc. went forward - and the same in Germany and France and yes the UK (when Welsh was banned with Cornish etc)

Jews were also affected by this -- some assimilated to become Russian or Polish or German or etc. and some retreated to the old ways and some realized the need to move to Zion

the Russians persecuted the Jews just as they persecuted their other minorities to become Russian (NOTE though, the ordinary Russians had life almost as hard in any case)

But when Poland was recreated in 1918 there were many Jews who joined in this recreation

There was some violence against Jews, but no widespread one and this must be placed in the context that the entire lands of the Poles were invaded by 4 different armies in 5 years until 1920, was torn by fights between Poles, Soviets, Lithuanians, Ukrainians etc.

In fact the Jewish population rose to become 10% of the population

There was a National Party (NP) which had some anti-semitic views, but they had anti-minority views as well -- they wanted all to become Poles, and all the Poles to speak the same version of Polish - so they antagonized the Lithuanians, Belarussians, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland as well as the Jews. But the minorities were 34% of the population and also the ND didn't have a majority support among Poles -- the Poles instead revered Josef Pilsudski, the guy who won Polish independence and who, of Lithuanian origin, believed in teh multi-cultural, mutli-ethnic, multi-religious character of the Old Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.

26 posted on 11/29/2012 9:12:26 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson