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To: cripplecreek; fieldmarshaldj; Clintonfatigued; Impy
>> Crack smoking lunacy is clowns who desperately cling to progressive ideas like the 17th amendment snake oil. <<

Crack smoking lunacy is the idea that professional career politicians know what's best for us and that state legislatures will select far better Senators than we the people because they're so much wiser and smarter than us, and somehow magically less corrupt and statist than their federal counterparts.

It is the very antithesis of conservatism. Conservatism basically boils down to the concept that we individuals can make the best decisions for what's best for us, NOT the government. To quote Ronald Reagan: Government is the NOT solution to our problems, government IS the problem. It will be a cold day in hell before I give the crooks in my state legislature MORE power over my life.

31 posted on 11/21/2012 7:11:36 PM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy

So the founders were wrong and the progressives got it right?


33 posted on 11/21/2012 7:14:31 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: BillyBoy; cripplecreek; fieldmarshaldj; AuH2ORepublican; GOPsterinMA; Perdogg; LS; sickoflibs; ...

Ultimately I care only about the ends and not the means, so given our difficulty in winning the Senate and the fact we have the majority of legislatures I am tempted to consider flip flopping on this, only for that reason.

The other “arguments” in favor remain silly. That idea that state governments (READ: STATE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS) should be represented in Washington is absurd. Even GOP state governments tend toward corruption like ALL governments. I would rather take my chances with an open election.

The further claim that Senators would somehow vote differently (read: “better” or “more constitutionally”) if chosen by legislatures is one of the top 5 most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard in my life. Democrats and RINOs in state legislatures don’t care about the constitution anymore than their counterparts in Washington do. If anything they would vote worse, no democrat for example would dare oppose his party on anything for fear of being replaced when fellow party loyalists are his only electorate. The “state rights” people never admit it but state governments (and local) are just as bad as the feds. The problem is bad government, not bad federal government.

The other one the “how dare you change what the founders put in” one is even lamer. The founders are the ones who made the constitution amendable. I don’t recall any advocate of this repeal ever addressing that counter argument.

They passed the amendment for good reason, there was massive corruption in the process and deadlocks when they couldn’t agree (I suppose this would happen in any state nowadays that has split control of legislative chambers).

Knee jerk bad mouthing of anything that was passed during the so called “Progressive era” is not an argument. They also passed good things like this, and the one letting women vote, though with recent elections I must question that one ( ;) just kidding ladies).

Most importantly though is the fact that is is pipe dream of a small handful of paleo-conservative types. Not only will it never happen but an actual mainstream movement to try and make it happen will never happen.

What we need to do is elect conservative Republicans to office at all levels of government. That mission in no way would be aided by any attempt at what most people would view as taking away their right to vote for Senator and giving it to a bunch of politicians.

We must deal with reality, even if it were a good idea, which it’s not, it still would not be viable.

Not in the face Cripplecreek, please, we’ll have to agree to disagree.


55 posted on 11/22/2012 1:11:29 AM PST by Impy (Boehner for President - 2013)
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