Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Social Conservatism vs. Fiscal Conservatism

Posted on 11/20/2012 8:42:54 AM PST by Scooter100

I am wondering about the structure of a third "Constitutional" party. Would it be better to form a party exclusively on a fiscal issues basis? What would be the pros and cons of taking social issues completely off the table? I mean, are there really enough "social issues" in the text of the Constitution itself to warrant making them a permanent policy of a new party and subsequently risking vicious debate and division? I guess I am thinking of the inevitability of Conservatives locking antlers with the "socially" left wing of the Libertarians", who are otherwise fiscally right wing. Shouldn't social issues be contained closer to the people, i.e., at the state/local levels?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abortion; fiscalconservatives; gopcivilwar; libertarians; socialconservatives; vanity
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 241-259 next last
To: Kevmo

Brilliant.


81 posted on 11/20/2012 12:02:58 PM PST by AnonymousConservative (Why did Liberals evolve within our species? www.anonymousconservative.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Notary Sojac

You are claiming something that flies in the face of everything that we know about politics and voting in America, including the 2012 election.

You are claiming that in W. Virginia, that the Evangelicals and social conservatives are the liberal democrat voters, which seems to imply that the anti-Christians, like you, are voting majority republican.

I would like to see your evidence to support your bizarre claim, where are your exit polls?


82 posted on 11/20/2012 12:07:38 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb FischerÂ’s successful run in Nebraska)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: joe fonebone
Now THIS...

Is a discussion that needs to happen....

Agree 100%. This is the most popular topic of discussion going on in my house in recent weeks, and of great interest. Maybe the fiscally conservative socially moderate combo was rare at one time, but I really believe it's growing substantially - especially among the young.

I don't see rigid old school social conservatism getting stronger - just the opposite. I don't see adherence to it, putting it above strong support for limited government and individual rights & responsibilities, winning many converts in the future.

My argument is that a huge central government is the overriding issue - not social issues. If the government gets too much power (which it already has, so this entire discussion is probably moot), social issues won't matter. They'll simply be dictated by the regime in power. We're seeing that already per the hard left Dems + soft left GOPe elitists running our lives.

I think the Republican party is dead as a brand. Even content-wise it's rushing to become Dem-lib lite. Who cares. I wasted my vote and contributions YET again this year on R's - to keep from "splitting the vote." But based upon recent voting trends, I think it's clear there's not enough non-parasite vote to worry about splitting anymore. May as well vote my conscience from here on out and go with a third party. R's aren't going to win ever again anyway. Time to weather a few ultra-lib Dem election wins (like we have any choice anyway?) and start to get rid of this corrupt two-party system to grow some third parties while the Dem-libs run everything in the ground. Unless of course the entire system collapses in the interim and voting is pointless - which is much more likely based upon where we're at as a nation right now.

IMHO, the parasites & looters are now in full control. Only hope I see is balkanization of the corrupt American two-party dominated political system into multiple smaller parties that form ruling coalitions, as is the case in some other countries. If it starts happening to the dying traditional GOPe adherents that are becoming more & more incompatible to try and keep together, and is recognized as such by many, I think it will happen soon after to the always-on-the-edge-of-chaos-and-mutiny traditional Dem factions as well. If we can get to 4 or 5 substantive political parties organized around actual ideology rather than the D vs. R high school football rivalry mentality where ideology and real issues don't even matter to most, the landscape will change and there may be hope. I'm tired of beating the dead Republican horse. I got off it when they nominated McNasty and made the mistake of jumping on at the last second both the last two presidential elections. No more.

83 posted on 11/20/2012 12:15:10 PM PST by MCH
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Hemingway's Ghost
I believe Mark Levin was speaking of your kind.

We conservatives, we do not accept bipartisanship in the pursuit of tyranny. Period. We will not negotiate the terms of our economic and political servitude. Period. We will not abandon our child to a dark and bleak future. We will not accept a fate that is alien to the legacy we inherited from every single future generation in this country. We will not accept social engineering by politicians and bureaucrats who treat us like lab rats, rather than self-sufficient human beings. There are those in this country who choose tyranny over liberty. They do not speak for us, 57 million of us who voted against this yesterday, and they do not get to dictate to us under our Constitution.

We are the alternative. We will resist. We're not going to surrender to this. We will not be passive, we will not be compliant in our demise. We're not good losers, you better believe we're sore losers! A good loser is a loser forever. Now I hear we're called 'purists.' Conservatives are called purists. The very people who keep nominating moderates, now call us purists the way the left calls us purists. Yeah, things like liberty, and property rights, individual sovereignty, and the Constitution, and capitalism. We're purists now. And we have to hear this crap from conservatives, or pseudo-conservatives, Republicans.


84 posted on 11/20/2012 12:16:43 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
I'm saying you should not use the 2012 presidential election as a benchmark for how West Virginians generally vote. It is in every way an outlier.

West Virginia votes in liberal Democrats for governor, statewide offices, state legislators (and one RINO in Congress) over and over and over and over and over again. If you think that is because they are agnostics and libertarians, you don't know the state, period.

85 posted on 11/20/2012 12:17:10 PM PST by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: AnonymousConservative

The question is, who gets to decide what’s a “big rock” that has to go in first, and what’s “rice” that will fit in later if there’s room for it? One man’s “rice” may be another man’s “rock”.


86 posted on 11/20/2012 12:18:46 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: Notary Sojac

In 2008, the most social conservative voting (Evangelical) block voted 66% for McCain/Palin.

We know that the democrats won the social libera/anti-christian vote, the left always does.


87 posted on 11/20/2012 12:19:46 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb FischerÂ’s successful run in Nebraska)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: Scooter100
This is like medieval philosophers arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Face it, both social and fiscal conservatism is dead in this country.

Not that conservatives are literally dead; but they are no longer the majority.

The hands out, gimme’s have won. And it didn't happen just in the USA. Sarkozy in France lost earlier to the same coalition of parasites.

With four more years of Obama I don't see things getting better at all... Yet they'll keep blaming us for all the problems. We're not giving fast enough...

88 posted on 11/20/2012 12:21:18 PM PST by Alas Babylon!
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Notary Sojac
Oh please, not the Austrian school again. Bring back the gold standard and the deflationary depressions every 20 years that went with it. Why not just go straight to a barter system if you're so fond of the dark ages.

Here's what you need to read. And fortunately, they've got some good free excerpts from the book that might open your mind a little.

Excerpts from "Why Free Trade Doesn't Work, What to Replace it with and Why"

89 posted on 11/20/2012 12:22:29 PM PST by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Scooter100
I understand your intent here and have considered this in the past. My belief is that the social debate will not be won by either side, conservative or liberal. The arguments by social conservatives have the same vigor as arguments by social liberals, because both sides believe they are correct they will not compromise. You are correct to recognize that this is the wedge that maintains the two party status quo and prevents change. As long as it is intact gridlock will continue as we approach insolvency. If one side attempts to drop social issues from their platform it will tip the balance, this is already happening.
Personally I have put more emphasis on fiscal issues lately because 1) This is not debatable as social issues are and is capable of drawing support across the political spectrum and 2) I believe that a large part of social liberalism is dependent on funding that cannot exist if the fiscal side wins.
In summary I have little faith that things will change, and virtually none that the gop-e can be brought to the right enough for this to happen. I think we should reconsider cloward-piven: Insolvency is a mathematical certainty, what happens next is the tricky part of the theory.
90 posted on 11/20/2012 12:28:17 PM PST by Roland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
It's a Venn diagram, man. A good sized chunk of evangelicals cross the line and vote Democrat, and a good sized chunk of other Christians, of Jews, and of non believers vote Republican.

the most social conservative voting (Evangelical) block voted 66% for McCain/Palin.

Which if my math is right, means evangelicals can demand a platform which is precisely tailored to their views - and win - if they make up at least three-fourths of the electorate. By all means, have a go at that if you care to try.

91 posted on 11/20/2012 12:32:12 PM PST by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: Roland

The only way to win the Hispanic vote and make it conservative, is social conservatism, Protestants have already demonstrated this with Hispanics.

Protestant Hispanics voted 44% GOP in 2000, 56% in 2004, and 48% GOP in 2008, Protestants (I suppose Evangelicals) reached them, penetrated to something inside of them that opened their eyes and enabled them to see the left as it is, and where good people belong.


92 posted on 11/20/2012 12:37:33 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb FischerÂ’s successful run in Nebraska)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
You've obviously confused me with a diehard free-trader, which I'm not. I believe in reciprocity.

But it's NOT a cure for the massive overleveraging of the last twenty years, nor is it a cure for the Ponzi-esqe structures of Medicare and Social Security.

It's completely disingenuous to claim that there is a quick or painless fix for where we have gotten ourselves. A healthy dose of austerity is in our future even if we do all the correct things.

93 posted on 11/20/2012 12:40:24 PM PST by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Notary Sojac

You are selling anti-conservative, anti-Christian trash.

Socail conservatives are the most conservative voters in you state, yet you lie and attack them as the liberal voters.

Your block, the non/anti-religious, are the most liberal voters in your state, and you want more of them.

In 2004, in West Virginia, Bush got 66% of the Evangelical vote, and 36% of the noreligion vote, your anti-God group needs fixing.

We see the message over and over, social conservatives are the conservatives in america.


94 posted on 11/20/2012 12:44:55 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb FischerÂ’s successful run in Nebraska)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

You’re demonstrating that if a place is made for social conservative issues on the table, they’re going to claim ownwership of and exclusive rights to the entire table.


95 posted on 11/20/2012 12:59:01 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: AnonymousConservative
Most SoCon issues are about not funding abortion through taxes, not forcing religious institutions to pay for birth control, supporting marriage because of the benfits it offers society, not encouraging single parenting with handouts, etc.

Where SoCons want to not fund abortion or sexual practice related expenses, they are being conservative, keeping government out of our private lives and religion.

Where SoCons want government to regulate abortion and sexual practice, they are not being conservative, inviting government to regulate our lives based on their religion.

96 posted on 11/20/2012 1:05:13 PM PST by tentmaker (Galt's Gulch is a state of mind...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

What do you mean?

W. Virginia is pretty obscure and hard to get data for, how does Texas and California fit in to your statement?


97 posted on 11/20/2012 1:06:48 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb FischerÂ’s successful run in Nebraska)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
I've seen it here many times.

Christian conservatives here on FR go purple in the face when contemplating the existence of atheists and agnostics who vote conservative, despite their contention that it's a tiny minority. They keep trying to read me out of the movement, and I resolutely refuse to be read out.

At the same time, the millions of Protestants and Catholics who are out there voting Democrat again and again don't seem to give them much cause for concern.

I have to think that it's because I'm "inside the tent" so to speak, and my existence here as a conservative non-believer is a much greater offence to their world view than are the opinions of the liberal believers, who are not to be found on FR or any of the other conservative circles they frequent.

98 posted on 11/20/2012 1:16:23 PM PST by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: tentmaker
Where SoCons want government to regulate abortion and sexual practice

Abortion has to be against the law, that is a life and death fact, not religion, and people aren't saying that you and your boyfriend can't have sex, they are saying that we already have defined marriage, and that definition stands, and you can't force homosexuality onto the military and Boy Scouts.

99 posted on 11/20/2012 1:17:23 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb FischerÂ’s successful run in Nebraska)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: tentmaker

Only liberals believe that people can be made virtuous via legislative enactment.


100 posted on 11/20/2012 1:19:07 PM PST by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 241-259 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson