SanFran Chronicle: If they want to secede, let 'em

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 11/13/2012 | Caille Millner

[altsehastiin]

The unspoken fact is whole secession question seems to have arisen after 0bama stole the election. Oh, to the contrary. Secession is attractive because Obama won the election, which suggests that we are at a tipping point where the unproductive have complete control of the government and can no longer be resisted by the productive.

[ravenwolf]

Cute, but who’ll bail CA’s ass out when it hits the fiscal wall, genius?
Idiot.

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I doubt if there are enough people in California who are not socialists to get it done anyway, so why worry about the gays

You are not the only Idiot.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Is expressing the desire to secede an indication that a number of our fellow citizens want the left to understand that number of Americans can no longer live with the left?

Is the sucessionist expression a faint precurser of a coming Social War?

[Lurking Libertarian]

Good point. The Civil War would be the “legal precedent” so to speak, that states can’t just decide to secede.

After the Civil War, the Supreme Court held in Texas v. White (1869) that there is no constitutional right for a state to secede.

[KarlInOhio]

Does anyone actually think the United States would send its military to attack the government of the Republic of Texas? Does anyone actually think the military would obey such an order?

The question then comes down to who is willing to shoot first. Let's say Texas does issue articles of secession. Will Obama pull the US military out of the new Republic of Texas? How about the EPA, OSHA, NASA or a thousand other federal agencies? Essentially Obama would ignore secession until United States facilities started being forcibly taken over by Republic of Texas forces. Pretty soon you would have a Fort Sumter situation where the Texans would have to shoot to remove US forces. Then after dozens of US troops have been killed by the Republic of Texas, would the rest of the military call for retreat or attack against the rebels?

[LucianOfSamasota]

But seeing as this country did fight the most bloody war in its history over the secession of the chattel slavery-holding states, it's sad to see that those are the same states that currently boast the most popular secession petitions.

Perfect Newspeak! Petitions are in protest of Federal oppression vis-a-vis tax slavery, i.e. we work so Obama supporters can 'share' the product. But he reverses the roles, and infers that we protest because we want our slaves back. Satan is the father of lies and its amazing how well his socialist followers apply his talents.

[Gator113]

“Many things that are absurd notions at one time have become inevitabilities.”

Just like the thought of Obama winning a second term. ;>)

[MrB]

Obama’s not the problem, he’s the symptom and the result.

The problem is a bloated government that maintains its power by giving out freebies to people who vote for more freebies.

If not secession, then a strong application of the 10th amendment is necessary to provide a place where these freebies are not given out so freely, nor are the productive citizens penalized in order to provide them.

The sorting process would then begin.

[TheWryFederalist]

“It’s an opening, a crack in the anti-secession cabal.”

I’m still waiting for someone, anyone, to propose a solution as to how you overcome, electorally, a majority now utterly dependent on government handouts and a political party determined to grow that majority to the greatest extent possible other than separation or surrender to it.

[TheWryFederalist]

As I said, no one believes the Leviathan Moocher government will say have it your way and good luck to you.

It will take a precipitating catastrophic event.
like a financial collapse as some pretty smart money guys are saying is looming over the horizon.

When the USSR collapsed in the early 90s, its vassal states inside and outside of it declared their independence and the Kremlin was powerless to prevent it.

[altsehastiin]

But like all such things, it also depends on having a seed planted out there, to make the unspoken speakable, if only to be dismissed. Indeed, secession is an absurd, unthinkable notion, relegated to a handful of fringe cooks. Just like gay marriage was 10 years ago...

[6ppc]

Secession petitions are a waste of time. The only way this can gain any momentum is for state legislatures to pass laws telling the fedgov to pound sand. We need an umbrella alliance of red states to organize and focus the effort. Get enough state legislatures to join the alliance and pass laws telling fedgov to shove it and maybe something can happen, but forget anything coming of it without action by state governments.

[Jyotishi]

> Martial law is Obama’s only other option (but will the military support him? hmmmm...

Such suppositions make one want to go out and buy a lot of popcorn.

[MrB]

Ignore their claim to authority until they try to use force to enforce their authority.

[ravenwolf]

States did not post any petitions

people did

If you want to secede you will have to do a real petition, on paper, and submitted to the state governments.

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You are most likely right on procedures but the people of the state are the state if they are in agreement.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Is the desire to secede widespread?

If the desire to secede widespread is its expression a statement by many of our fellow citizens that they can no longer live with the left?

Is the expression of the desire to secede a faint precursor of a coming Social War?

[ravenwolf]

“but I’m counting those knuckleheads only once.”

Mean spirited remarks have never fed even one hungry child.

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Right , and people are supposed to feed their own children but the socialist sobs wants you to do it for them.

[The Sons of Liberty]

If not secession, then a strong application of the 10th amendment

You are absolutely correct about the bloated government, but that is precisely why it will never go for a strong application of the 10th Amendment. That only leaves secession.

[GVnana]

It’s symbolic, but I’m having fun with it.

[altsehastiin]

The question then comes down to who is willing to shoot first. Let's say Texas does issue articles of secession. Will Obama pull the US military out of the new Republic of Texas? How about the EPA, OSHA, NASA or a thousand other federal agencies? Essentially Obama would ignore secession until United States facilities started being forcibly taken over by Republic of Texas forces. Pretty soon you would have a Fort Sumter situation where the Texans would have to shoot to remove US forces. Then after dozens of US troops have been killed by the Republic of Texas, would the rest of the military call for retreat or attack against the rebels?

I'm sure this could be finessed. Texas issues articles of secession, and tells its businesses that they they need no longer withold and/or pay federal taxes. Texas is then in a position of defending her citizens from federal authorities.