Gun in Denver airport bathroom was Houston DEA agent's

chron.com ^ | 23 Oct 2012 | Dane Schiller

[smokingfrog]

The loaded .45-caliber Glock handgun left in a crowded Denver International Airport bathroom belonged to a Drug Enforcement Administration agent based in Houston, according to records obtained on Tuesday.

The gun, with one round in the chamber and 10 in the magazine, was found by a traveler last week on the back of a toilet seat beyond Transportation Security Administration checkpoints, according to a Denver police report.

It was later returned to the agent, who was traveling on Southwest Airlines from Denver to Houston.

The DEA has stayed mum on the gun, declining to confirm the agency's ties to the incident.

"Incidents such as the one you described ... fall within the scope of an (internal) investigation and DEA does not confirm, deny or comment on internal investigations," Lisa Johnson, spokeswoman for the DEA's Houston Division, said in response to a Chronicle query.

[Sloth]

I don’t carry often, but I always have a round chambered. I want a physical safety, though, not some Glock nonsense.

[JoeFromSidney]

I don’t know of any .45’s that will hold more than 10 rounds.

ParaOrdnance sells P-12s that hold 12 in the magazine and P-14s that hold 14 in the magazine. You can also get extended magazines that hold 15 rounds or more for single-stack 1911s, however all that I've tried tend to jam instead of feeding properly.

[SJSAMPLE]

Not unless it’s an extended mag. the full-sized .40 glock Glock 22) holds 15 in a standard capacity mag, but the .45ACP Glock 21 holds 13, while the more compact Glock 30 holds 10. For concealed carry, I’m betting it was the 10+1 round Glock 30.

[9422WMR]

Waiting until you need the weapon to rack the slide is just stupid. It may look cool in movies, but it will get you killed in the real world.
“Hey bad guy, wait right there while I load a round to shoot you with”, does not work.
Whether a Glock, a 1911, or a Springfield XD, always carry with one in the pipe. To do otherwise will result in being in second place, with bad results.
And if your worried about shooting yourself? Better get better training if your a CHL carrier.

[treetopsandroofs]

“I can’t begin to imagine the pucker factor when your “belly” fails to tell you to load those other two rounds and your firearm goes “click, click” while the need for the firearm likely escalates. Fun times...”

With a chuckle and no offense intended....

I think you might not have put quotes around my “belly” if you’d gotten my reference to John Wayne in “The Shootist”.

[SJSAMPLE]

1. There's nothing inherently unsafe about a chambered round, unless the firearm itself is inherently safe. If you don't touch the trigger on a modern firearm, you've got nothing to worry about.
2. Nothing "accidental" about these. Pure negligence is what causes these discharges and Glocks are no different. To the contrary, Glocks don't have a positive safety. Anyone properly trained to carry a firearm knows that the safety is no safeguard against stupidity.

[treetopsandroofs]

“Waiting until you need the weapon to rack the slide is just stupid. It may look cool in movies, but it will get you killed in the real world.”

I’m not a carrier, but I can understand chambering it if one is, and certainly for a cop, as I posed earlier. If I’m going to the trouble to take my weapon out of the drawer/safe, I figure I’ve got time to chamber a round.

My personal preference, I don’t think it warrants being called stupid.

[SJSAMPLE]

I carry EVERY day and my Glock 23 is not “nonsense”. I carry in a PROPER holster, so the need for additional safeties seems pointless. Even the passive trigger safety seems like overkill.

I’ve seen more M1911-related negligent discharges than I’ve seen for Glocks, but Glocks are far more prevalent in the shooting community (especially police) than 1911-pattern firearms. That would explain the seemingly-high rate of Glock-owner negligence.

[Vigilantcitizen]

Damn we got a lot in common.

[treetopsandroofs]

Thanks, I’ve been schooled now.

[Stonewall Jackson]

[SJSAMPLE]

Don’t sweat it.
We all get ‘schooled’ once in a while, whether we need it or not.

[JRandomFreeper]

Yep. Keep the booger hook off the bang switch, and everything is safe as houses.

/johnny

[elteemike]

I guess I’m one of “they” because I always carry with a round in the chamber...

What is referred to as “accidental discharge” should more accurately be referred to as negligent discharge...

As has been mentioned, safe-action semi-auto handguns like Glocks and XDs are designed to be carried with loaded chamber...

The one reoccuring factor that contributes/leads to negligent discharges is that the “nut behind the bolt” placed his/her finger on the trigger (thoughtlessly/inadvertantly, of course) and then applied sufficent pressure to cause the trigger to break and fire the weapon...

With rare exception, this human error is the cause of the negligent discharge...

Other factors include worn out or inferior holsters, clothing, seat belts, etc. snagging the trigger, improper mode of carry, or improper reholstering technique (failure to safe, then finger in trigger guard contacts holster rim, etc)...

Mechanical failures of the properly maintained pistol are vanishingly rare...It’s almost always operator error...

Just as some “drivers” never learn to operate a motor vehicle safely enough to not menace other drivers, some folks never do figure out that whole finger...trigger...bang...thingie...

Why would anyone think a LEO is excluded or immune from unsafe and stupid behavior with a firearm?

[PowderMonkey]

Some LEOs are criminally casual about their service weapons. We had a local Chief of Police who made a bad habit of separating herself from her duty belt and weapon whenever she popped in to the local Stop-N-Rob for her daily lunch of diet Coke and chili cheese dog. She would hurriedly pull in, park the car, jump out, and remove her duty belt and weapon, tossing them onto the driver’s seat. One day, on her way to a chili cheese dog, she blundered into an armed robbery in progress. That’s why they call them “Stop-N-Robs,” Chief. Perps got the cheese dog, money, and police car with all accessories (including riot shotgun and AR15 in the trunk).

[9422WMR]

stu·pid   /ˈstupɪd, ˈstyu‐/ Show Spelled [stoo-pid, styoo‐] Show IPA adjective, stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est, noun adjective 1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull. 2. characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: Walking around with an unloaded weapon is stupid. Drawing an unloaded weapon when the need for a loaded weapon occurs is foolish. See above explanation.

[trebb]

They seem to like to chamber that first round.... I think that one factor contributes to almost all accidental discharges, at least involving Glocks.

Many LEOs are required to keep one in the tube and also to not have a safety - if you need it, squeezing the trigger should make it speak. I have a couple carry pieces that have no safety and one stays in the tube. The trigger/hammer remain under minimal pressure, even when cocked, until you start to squeeze (fairly long throw) which puts more pressure until the hammer cycles all the way back and releases. While not impossible to accidentally discharge, you have to be pretty reckless for it to occur.

[treetopsandroofs]

Whatever. I already posted I don’t carry, so I’m guilty of neither of your definitions of stupidity and I don’t really care much, either.

[treetopsandroofs]

Thanks for the info.

[William Tell]

JRandomFreeper said: "... it's a 1911 style that requires me to unsafe it, and cock it before that first round can be fired."

Before one of my many boating accidents, I used to own a Kimber Ultra-Carry, which is a "1911 style". Your comment caused me to refer to the manual which came with it.

HAMMER SAFETY STOP
The hammer safety stop is a notch on the hammer
which prevents it from falling fully forward in the
event of primary sear notch failure. It also prevents
the hammer from hitting the firing pin should your
fingers slip from the slide or hammer while cocking
the pistol, provided the hammer has been moved
past the stop. The safety stop is not a manual
safety! Do not under any circumstances use the
safety stop as a "half cock" position. This misuse
can result in damage to the sear, and/or
unintentional discharge of the pistol. The safety
stop position is an automatically engaging safety
feature and should never be engaged by hand."

Thinking that the Kimber might be unusual with respect to this issue, I found on the Colt website their manual for their "Colt WWII Reproduction Pistol Model M1911A1".

It includes the following:

Half Cock Notch in Hammer

The Half Cock Notch is an automatically operating fail-safe device which will engage the sear in the unlikely event of primatry sear notch failure. This will prevent the hammer from falling fully forward unintentionally and insure against uncontrolled automatic fire. It also prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin should your hand slip from the slide while cocking the pistol, provided the hammer is rotated past the Half Cock Notch. The Half Cock Notch is not meant to be engaged by hand.

CAUTION: NEVER PLACE OR ALLOW THE HAMMER TO REMAIN IN THE HALF COCK NOTCH. THIS IS NOT A SAFE CARRYING POSITION. ANY EFFORT TO ENGAGE THE HAMMER IN THE HALF COCK NOTCH MAY RESULT IN THE HAMMER PERCHING ON THE LIP OF THE HALF COCK NOTCH; THIS IS EXTREMELY HAZARDOUS. IF THE HAMMER IS IN THIS CONDITION IT COULD FALL FORWARD AND DISCHARGE THE PISTOL, THEREBY RISKING INJURY, DEATH, OR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY.

Perhaps the manual for your pistol specifies otherwise.