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Assisted dying: who's to decide when a life is not worth living?
UK Guardian ^ | 9/11/12 | Andrew Brown

Posted on 09/16/2012 9:52:35 AM PDT by wagglebee

An extraordinary poll published by the British Humanist Association (BHA) highlights the public ambivalence about assisted suicide and euthanasia. In conjunction with other recent surveys, it shows that more people are in favour of the law allowing the killing of relatively healthy patients like Tony Nicklinson than of those who are terminally ill.

The "respectable" wing of the assisted dying movement, Dignity in Dying, wants a very limited right to medically assisted suicide: only people who are terminally ill and in full possession of their faculties would qualify. Even this limited position is hugely controversial.

But the BHA believes that doctors should be allowed to help kill anyone who really wants to die and who cannot manage for themselves. This applies explicitly to perfectly healthy people as well as the terminally ill. And it is more popular than the limited position. No more than 15% of the population are opposed, or strongly opposed to it.

In fact, these attitudes are perfectly coherent and show that people understand there are clear limits to individualism. What the public wants is for everyone to have the right to determine as much as possible about their own lives. This includes the manner and moment of death. Suicide then becomes the grandest and clearest declaration that our lives are our own to do what we want with.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assistedhomicide; cultureofdeath; deatheaters; deathpanels; euthanasia; homicide; medicide; moralabsolutes; prolife; suicide
Those who stand to benefit from someone's death are very likely, sincerely, to see the life they want to end as hardly worth living. This is a nasty fact about human nature, but any kind of humanism that isn't grounded in human nature is no more than ludicrous and sinister self-deception. Our propensity to self-serving self-deception is one reason why Christians must insist that God loves every one of his creatures; no one except God does or could.

Perfectly stated.

1 posted on 09/16/2012 9:52:42 AM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser
Pro-Life Ping
2 posted on 09/16/2012 9:53:48 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun
Ping
3 posted on 09/16/2012 9:56:55 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

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4 posted on 09/16/2012 9:57:56 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
I consider myself very pro-life. I do not want the government to make these decisions. I do not want doctors to make these decisions. I feel very comfortable with these positions.

At the risk of crossing into dangerous moral territory, I might be willing to accept a private business which people could go to (unassisted -- if you can't get there on your own, then perhaps you care not responsible for the decision). People could go, register for a future appointment (two weeks out) and then come back (unassisted), pick up their designated pill and go immediately to a back room and get it over with. If you miss your appointment, you start over with a second appointment -- two weeks out.

As a truly personal decision, I think perhaps this could be an option. But any system which lends itself to getting rid of people, whom others have designated as "useless eaters", is definitely going in the wrong direction.

5 posted on 09/16/2012 10:02:29 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: wagglebee

“....who’s to decide when a life is not worth living?...”

The Lord Jesus....


6 posted on 09/16/2012 10:03:31 AM PDT by illiac (If we don't change directions soon, we'll get where we're going)
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To: illiac
who’s to decide when a life is not worth living?

Possibly the owner of the vessel!

7 posted on 09/16/2012 10:21:34 AM PDT by BillGunn (Bill Gunn for Congress district one rep. Massachusetts)
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To: wagglebee
In America it will done fairly to make a determination in the best interests of society as a whole.

Government Death Panels "End Of Life Planning Boards" will conduct an unbiased evaluation for each person.


8 posted on 09/16/2012 10:23:54 AM PDT by Iron Munro ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." - Ayn Rand)
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To: ClearCase_guy
I think I can see what you're getting at there, ClearCase, but I can't agree. Access of death-by-choice leads to insoluble ethical problms no matter how you look at it, and it's absolutely important not to go there.

My best and oldest friend --- in fact, the only friend I still have from way back in high school days --- has a daughter age 20: sensitive, intelligent, lovely, and right now as we speak, suicidal. Her dad, a lovable and very decent man, has veen struggling with depression and alcohol, on and off, al his life. Mama and papa are in New Orleans, Lovely Girl was in NYC where she just 1 month ago dropped out of college.

I have no doubt in my mind that Lovely Girl could have gone to your proposed clinic, asked for the Sayonara Pill, gone back 2 weeks later and gotten it, gone back to her room with the pill, a glass of sherry and a book of poetry, and been dead by now.

I think, in fact, that that could have happened to any of us. Very few people would last the 8 years from 9th grade to the undergrad degree, if we had a painless and perfectly reliable pill, and especially no way to trace that it was actually suicide (spare your parents, you know.)

As it was, Lovely Girl called her parents, her Mama got some free ar tickets from some kind friends (they're not moneyed people), Mama flew into NYC and helped Lovely Girl get her stuff packed up, and they flew back to New Orleans, arriving back home last night.

Lovely Girl no doubt has a hard road ahead, since she thinks she's a friendless failure, headed for lifelong diappointment because she's, in temperament, her father's daughter, she's nothing (no husband, no lover, no degree, no profession, right now no clear future), and it would simply the world for others, if she was off the cast of this dismal play.

But I think God is still the author and stage-manager of her life (the script is partly but not wholly up to her) and she will come to know better days; and will learn deep lessons from the worst ones; and will; bless others not even knowing she's a blessing.

"Oh!" You might say. "No of course, SHE should't get the pill. There would have to be criteria."

But what criteria? As soon as thee are criteria, somebody else is deciding, "THIS kind of person is worth survival; THAT kind of person is not."

No, Sociaety MUST assume life is always a value, especially for the imperiled and fragile.

Otherwise, it's thr axe for all, bereft and bereaving one by one.

9 posted on 09/16/2012 10:33:28 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
But what criteria? As soon as thee are criteria, somebody else is deciding, "THIS kind of person is worth survival; THAT kind of person is not."

If we've learned ANYTHING from the culture of death, it is that they will always expand their definition of which lives are "not worth living."

10 posted on 09/16/2012 10:38:37 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; wagglebee

Good points. Although I do put my toe in the water once in a while to explore a “broadminded” view of things, I would rather remain a pro-life absolutist. Thanks for helping me see that it is the best position.


11 posted on 09/16/2012 11:37:57 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: illiac

And who speaks for the lord Jesus?


12 posted on 09/16/2012 11:38:23 AM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I also know someone is currently suicidal, but she is much older, and having serious financial and marital problems. A year ago, as a result of these issues, she had developed a serious drinking problem, and had a TIA. She recently denied to me that she was suicidal, but then a couple of weeks later confessed to me that she had lied. I'm very worried about her, particularly since she has not returned my last two calls. She also told me that she is deeply ashamed of all of this, which is why she concealed it from me.

People make mistakes. Suicide is a mistake that cannot be undone.

13 posted on 09/16/2012 2:27:36 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham
I hope she has some friend or kin that keeps in touch on a regular basis. Best if somebody can say to her, "If you feel like committing suicide, please promise to call me and talk to me before you do anything." She has to say it: "Yes, I will talk to you before I do anything." That is actually a huge help.

I was once (27 years ago) at the intersection of about 6 life crises coming at once. I thought about drowning myself in the bathtub-- an impulse, I could have done it in a flash --- but what stopped me was realizing that my father or mother would find my body, and it would be too horribly cruel to them.

But sometimes people are so depressed they can't even think that far.

I will pray for your friend when I pray for my friend's daughter "Lovely Girl." I will ask Our Lord to draw to them the people they need.

14 posted on 09/16/2012 3:32:44 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Let us commend ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, unto Christ Our God.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; trisham
Your friends are in my prayers.

Where there is life, there is hope. - Terri Schindler Schiavo

15 posted on 09/16/2012 7:52:07 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

Thank you.


16 posted on 09/17/2012 6:03:59 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Just to be is a Blessing; just to Live is Holy." -- Rabbi Abraham Heschel)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Thank you, Mrs. Don-o. I will pray for Lovely Girl as well.

One sign of at least temporary hope. She called last night and promised to call again today to talk. She sounded upbeat, although I know that can be an illusion.

17 posted on 09/17/2012 2:13:18 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: BykrBayb

Thank you, BykrBayb.


18 posted on 09/17/2012 2:13:54 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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