Posted on 07/17/2012 7:30:13 PM PDT by marktwain
Imagine it’s 1:30 a.m. and you’re in your apartment. You hear a knock on the door.
If you own a weapon, you would probably grab it, just in case.
For 26-year-old Andrew Lee Scott of Lake County, Fla., that decision would lead to his death.
On Sunday, Lake County Sheriff’s Office deputies were pursuing an attempted murder suspect when they mistakenly knocked on Scott’s apartment door. Scott answered the door with his gun drawn at the deputies, who then shot and killed him.
Unfortunately, Scott was not the suspect deputies were chasing. Deputies knocked on Scott’s door because the suspect’s motorcycle was parked across from his front door.
Scott likely approached his front door with a gun because the deputies did not identify themselves, according to Lake County Officials, for safety reasons.
This was a tragedy that could have easily been avoided. When the deputies chased a suspect into the complex, they should have known that they could be knocking on anyone’s door. It seems like knocking on a random door unannounced is less safe than yelling, “Police!”
Lt. John Herrell told WESH Orlando, “The bottom line is, you point a gun at a deputy sheriff or police officer, you’re going to get shot.”
While that might be the case under normal circumstances, this should not be used as an excuse to justify the deputies’ actions. Scott was likely startled by the unannounced knock, and it’s not a crime to be cautious in your own home (or at least it shouldn’t be one).
Scott was not suspected of any crime and police did not have probable cause to enter his apartment unannounced. Central Florida News 13’s coverage of the story makes Scott appear more worthy of his untimely demise — its story leads with “A Lake County man with a criminal history is dead after a confrontation with deputies.”
While it’s true that Scott had a criminal history and that drugs were found in Scott’s apartment, those facts have little to do with his death.
The deputies who killed Scott are currently on administrative leave, and if the events transpired as stated, the deputies should be fired and charged with his death.
While police are there to enforce the law, their badges do not make them above the law. If police wrongly kill someone, they should face the same consequences as anyone else.
Dido, once someone was banging on my garage door and i hit the open button and he was looking at the barrel of a 357. lol, scared the &&&& out of him. I invited him in for beer and told him not to do that ever again. One beer and then ok, bye. Have not seen him since.
First they came for the dogs...
Good grief. Where in the world did you get the idea that happened?
Good point, the article says the man answered the door with “his gun drawn at” the deputies.
I take it to mean he aimed in on the police, and that’s just asking to be shot. If the perceived threat is that severe, then don’t open the damn door.
However, my faith in the media to get the story right is pretty low. What if they just saw a gun in hand, not pointed at them?
The story also says the police didn’t self identify. Did remain silent to a “Who’s there?” query? Did they say anything?
There are many scenarios that might make things murkier than it appears as reported.
We don't know if the guy pointed a gun at anyone and if someone has a gun pointed at you and you decide you are going to draw and shoot, you'll get two slugs through you before your firearm clears the holster.....unless of course you have extraordinary draw and fire prowess.The cops version of this doesn't pass the smell test and conveniently, the only one that can dispute it, they killed.
“Did remain silent to a “Who’s there?” query? Did they say anything?”
(knock, knock, knock)
Who is it?
It’s me, Dave, open up, man, I got the stuff.
(knock, knock knock)
Who is it?
It’s me, Dave, man, open up, I got the stuff.
Who?
It’s, Dave, man, open up, I think the cops saw me come in here.
The idiot could’ve easily had the gun in hand concealed by the door and he’d still be alive.....
If it had been two gangbangers intent on robbing him and he held the gun behind the door he’d probably be just as dead as he is right now.
Me neither.........but they did it. Which is why they were met with guns instead of "can I help you officer?"
They must have expected it. They walked away and the guy that answered the door didn’t.
Are you crazy?
If you encounter a hostile homeowner, surrendering is far safer than drawing a gun. Apologize for bothering the homeowner, and leave. Drawing down would only benefit you in the very unlikely event that the homeowner would shoot you if you tried to surrender, but--despite their having the drop on you and wanting to shoot you--you can manage to draw and shoot before they can shoot you. Drawing down would get you needlessly killed in the far more likely scenario where the homeowner would quite reasonably react to such a gesture by shooting you, but would have been more than happy to let you leave had you simply revealed your identity and the reason for your visit. Of course, drawing down also has other risks, like being prosecuted for murdering a perfectly innocent homeowner and getting a jury who recognize that an action cannot be legitimately claimed as "self-defense" absent a reasonable belief that the action would in fact make the actor vastly safer than he would be without it. And in the scenario you describe, I see no basis for such belief.
How the hell do you know that 99.9999% of the time it’s not going to be the bogey man? This was a ghetto appartment building. The guy opening the door could have been expecting some drug dealers. He was expecting someone that was not good for him or he wouldn’t have had the gun.
What I’m saying is if a gangsta comes into your house for an armed invasion, he won’t start shooting immediately. But if you’ve a gun in your hand behind the door when the gangsta, WITH GUN IN HAND, pushes way in you raise up the gun and POW!
I am in favor of police clearly identifying themselves before engaging in armed confrontations. If they are afraid of getting shot, they can identify themselves from behind cover.
I didn't surrender in the Marine Infantry and I'm not going to surrender to some lipshitz who is stupid enough to answer his door with a gun aimed in at me for no reason.
If in the process of canvassing a neighborhood you knock on a stranger's door and find a woman pointing a gun at you, which of the following is more likely:
Indeed, even from an 'honor' standpoint, I would suggest that obsequiousness is far more likely to result in an honorable result for all concerned than would aggression, as the woman who is afraid of her ex's return would likely be relieved and apologetic when she realizes you are not the person she was expecting.
Because with those kinds of SOP's you'd be real dead real quick.
With the SOPs you seem to favor, the homeowners end up dead real quick.
So under the law I can walk onto your porch and knock on your door to make contact with you but I can't just walk inside.
Indeed. And, under the law, if you knocked on my door and I unprovokedly pointed a gun at you, you could--after establishing your bona fides as a police officer--arrest me and press charges for assault. Your odds of surviving to do that, however, would be greater if you try to demonstrate that you are a threat, than if you act as an aggressor.
Answering your front door with your gun aimed in on the person standing in front of you, either maliciously or out of stupidity is just bad judgement and bad gun ownership, and now there is definitive proof it'll get you dead.
I never said such behavior is wise. On the other hand, I maintain that such behavior are far more often the result of fear than aggression. Acting aggressively toward someone who is fearful is likely to prompt a must more hostile response than is acting submissive.
Brent also commented on someone pointing a gun for no reason. That is incorrect. Just because you don’t know the reason, doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Cops have forgotten we are people who want to live too. But only officer lives matter to him.
News flash to the pigs and bootlickers, when you don’t identify yourselves, you are a clear threat. How would you react to banging on your door and refusal to identify? But I guess the pigs are more equal than the other animals.
“I would assume then, that you’re a fan of themselves.”
I would rather cops died over innocent citizens. You chose your job. We didn’t volunteer to be victims of pig paranoia.
Suppose that an officer were to knock on the door for in canvassing or other similar situation, and the door was answered by someone with a gun in a low ready position. What would be SOP?
Suppose the officer was searching for a dangerous fugitive, but the door was answered by a stranger (not the fugitive) with a gun in a low ready position. What would be SOP in that situation?
Also, I'm curious if you can offer any insight as to why the shooters in this situation, by their own admission, didn't want to be recognized as cops? Was there any particular reason to think that a fugitive who would be willing to shoot a cop who was exercising his legitimate duties would courteously answer the door for a random stranger?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.