Posted on 06/01/2012 4:03:38 AM PDT by IbJensen
Do you believe that parents should be able to spank their children? Do you ever express that opinion to others?
If so, then you could be sent to prison. Sadly, that is exactly what happened to one pastor up in Wisconsin recently. A minister named Philip Caminiti was sentenced to 2 years in prison for simply teaching that parents should spank their children when they misbehave. Please note that Caminiti was not accused of spanking anyone or of physically hurting anyone.
He was put in prison simply for his speech. He was put in prison simply for what he was teaching others to do. Whether you agree with spanking or not, this should be incredibly sobering for all of us.
Increasingly, speech is being penalized in the United States. Much of the time, the focus of the attacks by the forces of political correctness is on religious speech. If this trend continues, many of you that are reading this article might be put in jail for the things that you say in the coming years.
When many of us were growing up, once in a while our parents would take out a belt or a wooden paddle and give us a paddling on the behind when we did something wrong.
Was there anything wrong with that?
Of course not.
Yes, there is real child abuse that goes on out there, but in the vast majority of instances spanking does not do any lasting physical harm. Rather, it benefits the child because it helps them learn what is right and what is wrong.
I know that when I got a licking on the behind as a child that helped me to remember not to do the same thing again.
But Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi was absolutely horrified that some parents would actually use a wooden spoon to spank their little children when they misbehaved.
Perhaps that judge should actually try to spank someone with a wooden spoon some time. You simply cannot do much damage with a wooden spoon.
Instead of going after the parents who were doing the spanking, prosecutors chose to go after the pastor instead. They claimed that Caminiti was "the spoke in the wheel of this conspiracy".
Even after Caminiti leaves prison, he will be forbidden from having any contact with his old church....
Caminiti will be on extended supervision for six years after his release from prison. Despite objections on constitutional grounds by Caminiti's lawyers, Sumi ordered that he not have any contact with the Aleitheia Bible Church and have no leadership role in any church.
What in the world is happening to this country?
Criminal predators are literally eating the faces off of people, and yet authorities want to go after pastors that are encouraging their congregations to follow the teachings of the Bible?
Have we stepped into a really bizarre episode of The Twilight Zone?
Sadly, this is not the only example of how our free speech is under attack these days.
Up in New York, a new bill was recently introduced that would outlaw all "mean-spirited and baseless political attacks".
I think that would cover a whole lot of people that leave comments on my blog.
The following is how a recent article by Kurt Nimmo described what this new law would require....
New York state government is attempting to pass the measure in both the Senate and the Assembly. The legislation has been referred to the Codes Committee in the Senate, and the Government Operations Committee in the Assembly.
Both proposals are identical and would effect messages posted on message boards, blogs, social networks, and “any other discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.” The law would require websites to post email addresses for “removal requests, clearly visible in any sections where comments are posted.” Those demanding the removal of content they find objectionable, however, would have their anonymity protected.
“Had the internet been around in the late 1700s, perhaps the anonymously written Federalist Papers would have to be taken down unless Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay revealed themselves,” notes David Kravets, writing for Wired.
Will we soon see laws such as this nationwide?
Will all blogs and websites soon be at the mercy of the politically correct police?
Up in Buffalo, New York it is apparently now against the law to hand out Christian tracts on a public sidewalk. At least that is what one man was told recently when he attempted to hand out tracts outside of an Italian heritage festival. The following is from a recent WorldNetDaily article....
While handing out tracts to willing recipients on a public street during a public festival, Owen was approached by a police officer who declined to identify himself but told him that the Buffalo Police Department is “the law” and he should stop handing out tracts.
According to the lawsuit: “Subsequently, another police officer, Officer Slomka, arrived on the scene. She quickly informed Owen that they could not hand out tracts in the festival and explained that the prohibition was ‘by our orders.’ Owen asked for her name, and she replied: ‘Slomka, write it down.’ Owen advised that he believed the tracts to be free speech; nonplussed, Officer Slomka reiterated that they couldn’t hand out tracts there and had to go outside of the festival area to continue with their expressive activity.”
Then, “Owen inquired as to whether they would be arrested if they continued to hand out tracts in the festival area, to which, Officer Slomka replied: ‘Yes.’”
That almost makes me angry enough to take a trip over to Buffalo and hand out tracts right outside the police station.
Even if you do not ever distribute literature, you should be alarmed at how our freedom of speech is being eroded.
The truth is that whenever anyone has their freedom of speech attacked it is an attack on all of us.
If we are not careful, we are going to end up just like Canada.
At one high school up in Canada recently, a student was suspended from school for a week for wearing a shirt with the following message....
"Life is wasted without Jesus"
The student was told that the shirt was "hate talk" and that he would be suspended for the rest of the year if he tried to wear it to school again.
They are coming for our free speech ladies and gentlemen.
They are not going to be satisfied until they have either shut all of us up or put all of us in prison.
It is imperative that we all stand up for free speech while we still can. Once our freedom of speech is gone, the loss of the rest of our freedoms will only be a matter of time.
well, I wouldn't criticize the White House resident out loud. <sarcasm>
I am glad the freak is going to jail....of course you did not read the story.
No you are incorrect. He didn't spank anybody. He advised his congregation to use either a wooden spoon or a dowel to spank their children and since some of them apparently did, the pastor was the one who was charged. The parents who may have "abused" their children were given immunity to testify against the pastor.
The Bible teaches that to spare the rod is to spoil the child. Apparently if you believe that proverb or if you read it aloud in public, then you can be sent to prison.
IF he told people to beat INFANTS, he was calling for child abuse. It is hard enough to know what is going on, without conservatives (Right Side News) lying or misleading. I expect the left to do this. Would be nice if the right did not act like the left.
When Caminiti has served his sentence he should get on GoogTube and start posting videos of what he is teaching, the legal hell he went through as a result of it, and also do a comparison of how things are done in the Islamic world both abroad and right here in America.
Indeed. To tell a child (i.e. anyone under 18) that their sexual preference is a sin would be mental abuse and the government will not tolerate anyone telling a child they are a sinner.
Source:
The charges alleged that two of the children involved were just 2 months old when discipline was advocated by Caminiti. The oldest child was 5 when the practice was stopped after police intervened in November 2010.
“I am glad the freak is going to jail....of course you did not read the story.”
I agree...he is one sick bustard. Beating a 2 month old infant with a wooden stick is beyond the pale.
The Pastor was sentenced for multiple counts of child abuse, which is a crime even for a pastor.
Oh. I forgot, back in those days most children had manners and obeyed the rules and laws. Now-days, without any discipline they don’t...just get “time outs.”
You should get your-facts straight before defending something.
He advised parents to beat their children as young as a few months old with a wooden spoon (he first denied this and then admitted say this on the stand) and that bruises were NOT and indication that the beatings went too far. He also knew that this activity was illegal and advised parents to do it out of the sight of witnesses. His own brother was convicted of child abuse.
This demented psycho was probably abused himself at a young age and maybe we can pity him, but I would no more defend him I would than a father who rapes his own son.
The crime was Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Conspiracy to Commit. So it looks like it is illegal to advocate spanking. Free speech is dead.
State of Wisconsin vs. Philip B Caminiti
Dane County Case Number 2011CF000479
Charge(s)/Sentence(s)
Charge Detail
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
1 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 12-31-2008 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Defendant is not eligible for the Substance Abuse Program. Defendant is not eligible for the Challenge Incarceration Program.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Restitution DA has 90 days to prepare/submit order.
Costs $113 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections. All outstanding financial obligations shall be paid at the rate of 25% of the prison wages and work release funds. The balance remaining at release from prison be paid as a condition of extended supervision or parole at a rate determined by the supervising agent.
Psych treatment Psychiatric/psychological evaluation as deemed appropriate by agent and treatment as recommended. Exam by Dr. James Gerndt.
Prohibitions Defendant shall not have any contact, direct or indirect, with Aleitheia Bible Church or any of its members except for his immediate family, children & grandchildren. Not have any leadership position in any church. No physical discipline of any child or counseling on physical discipline. No possession of any rods and/or dowels that may be used for physical discipline of children.
Other Complete a course in child development. Defendant advised of requirement to provide DNA sample - surcharge waived. Any other conditions DOC, Probation/Parole Department may impose.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
2 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-29-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Cts 2-8 are concur with each other but consec to ct 1.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
3 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-29-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
4 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 10-31-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
5 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-21-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
6 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-29-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
7 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-29-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
8 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-19-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
From the court records All charges are Conspiracy to Commit Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm So thaey are saying that his advocating spanking is a crime. Now it is against the law to talk.
Return to Case 2011CF000479
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Ok lets get the "facts" straight.
First of all, is this pastor a psycho? Probably. But there is an axiom in the law that "hard cases make bad law." I think this is one of them.
Fact: Does the Bible admonish parents to use a "rod" to discipline their children? Answer: Yes.
Did the pastor believe this proverb? Yes
Did the pastor teach this proverb? Answer: Yes
Does Wisconsin law prohibit the use of a "rod" to discipline a child? Answer: I suspect it does, but I also expect that it depends. This is a gray area. Apparently if it causes any kind of bruising then probably.
Was the Pastor accused of actually using a "rod" on any child? Answer: No.
Did the parishioners follow the biblical mandate to use a rod to discipline their children? Answer: Apparently so.
Did the pastor advise the parents to use the rod with such viciousness that it could actually cause harm to the child? Answer: It does not appear to be so, but we aren't really privy.
Who administered the rod on the children? Answer: the parents?
Were the parents charged? Answer: apparently but they were given immunity to testify against the pastor? So in essence the parents were relived of any liability for their own actions as long as they were willing to point their finger at the pastor.
Does this case set a bad precedent? Answer: you bet it does.
Did your parents ever spank you? Would your parents have been guilty of a crime in Wisconsin?
Will this case eventually be used to prohibit anyone from advocating that parents tell their children that homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God? Answer: Undoubtedly. It is already a criminal offense in Canada.
The Wisconsin case was particularly egregious, but both liberals and conservatives regularly flout the Constitution and the concept of limited government, one in the name of "social justice", the other in the name of "law 'n' order."
Problem. The Bible doesn’t say to strike the child with the rod.
If my parents beat me with a spoon until I was bruised when I was two months old I wouldnt have specific memories of it but would probably have the emotional scars that this demented psycho does (he was probably abused similarly) as well as all of his defenseless child victims. Preaching to others to break the law in private (so there are no witnesses) like he did is clearly against the law and should be.
If you believe that the Bible directs us to behave in such a way then I can't help you, but don't expect sympathy from a jury because the US Constitution doesnt protect this.
LOL!
The bible clearly delineates between the "rod" which was used to provide corporal punishment and the "staff" which is used to gently lead someone in the right direction.
To say that the Bible does not say to strike the child with the rod is ludicrous. To simply say that correcting a child verbally is using the rod is clearly a stretch since Proverbs 29:15 states that it is necessary to use BOTH the Rod AND reproof to impart wisdom.
Now there is no commandment to use a rod (i.e. physical punishment), but there is an admonishment to do so and there is a warning that the man who refuses to use the rod HATES his son.
These are the facts of the Bible. You can ignore them and even twist the scriptures to show some alternate meaning. But the meaning of this passage is as old as the bible itself and only in the last half century has anyone tried to pretend that the verses about using the rod to correct a child does not mean actually striking the child with the rod.
Wisconsin is free to outlaw striking the children with any object including an open palm. But that does not mean that the Bible did not teach that using such a method for correction and imparting wisdom was not only acceptable but advised.
So the question is now whether it is a felony to read these verses out loud in Wisconsin? If some parishioner takes these verses as a license to beat their child, then it would appear that the pastor who taught this as a biblical truth could be convicted of a felony.
This is a bad precedent. Not unexpected. But certainly bad.
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